Originally Posted by Nitro
Ringvereine was a special pre-war phenomenon. Embedded in german culture. Look only in germany (maybe japan too) gangster establish offical societies. With own flag etc.
After the second World War culture and economic situation change dramatic. So bladerkeks said right they lost on ground. But of course you will found native OC in Germany.

You will also found a lot connection between underworld figures and this special culture. In most citys in germany gangsters in 70's, 80's, 90's had some family or other link.

If you want understand native OC. You should forget your mafia idea.

Native OC had two different faces. One is closely connected with Redlight and the other are White-Dollar ´scene. Sometimes at some places this to worlds are connected.

Redlight: It is easier to writer about person's or underworld Kings. Because this is a subculture. Closely connected with each other. Some more some less organized. In 90's a lot oldschool Kings get arrested or retiered (Klaus Speer (berlin), Ringo Klemm (hamburg), Attila (stuttgart), Beker Brothers, frankfurt, Jürgen "Aki" Jacoby (Frankfurt), Thust....
So younger guys get on the top. Another important point it had nothing to do with nationality. So you can be a german, jew, jugo or somethng else. Important only you live this life.

In 90's starts another developments more or less young guys wehre worked in Redlight founded a MC called Bones MC. In 1999 Bones MC merge with the HA. So you cannot compare with HA USA. Most German MC are closly connected with redlight.

Today you will also found a lot "german" groups. Hamburger jungs (Marek Bande) in Hamburg, Generell Hamburg are german and albanian the most powerful guys. East Berlin had tough german groups, Winfried S and his successor in Westberlin. complete southwest Munich, Stuttgart had some germans, frankfurt, reutlingen...

Sometimes they are mixed Turkish, Greece and German but they more german than traditional turkish groups.

East German are another story but there are highly organized. Lot corruption so they had in some city realy power and well connected with other Non-german groups.


"German OC groups are seldom mentioned in trans-national criminal activities, but their
significant profits and the fact that they are involved in types of crime that require a vast
network of international connections suggest that their importance on a continental level
is underestimated and their actual power not fully known" From

EUROPOL REPORT 2005







Oh I didn't assume indigenous German criminal organizations to be like the mafia at all , I was just interested if they survived the Ringvereine era or not ...


Anyways thanks for the information .