Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
Originally Posted by RollinBones
Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
None taken. I was more referring to the turn of the century, but it's an oversight on my part if my post made it seem like I was drawing parallels between the Irish American experience in the 60's and the African American one.

Still, the fact that a Catholic and someone of Irish heritage was President was pretty unthinkable back then and a lot of people weren't happy about it.

It was probably the first climbing the ladder presidency, and last, until Obama got in.

Andrew Jackson, 7th President of the U.S, was the son of Irish immigrants. There were several more American presidents of Irish descent before Kennedy so it wasn't as unthinkable as you may want to believe. The Irish experienced some discrimination for a short while in the United States but trying to compare it to the history of Black people in America is a gross minimalization of the systematic racism that this country was built around, and the lasting effects that still exist today. It's really not in the same ballpark no matter which way you slice it.


Jackson was Scotch-Irish. That's totally different to Irish in terms of religion, culture, and economic status, although I understand the confusion.

The English tried to starve Irish people into extinction 150 years ago. It goes down in the history books as a "famine", but it was basically genocide.

Millions of people died and the "lucky" ones were forced to emigrate.

The English Prime Minister, Tony Blair, publicly apologised for it a few years ago.

Guess who the biggest contributors were to aid for the Irish people back then? Native Americans! People who didn't have a pot to piss in themselves, but then, they know what it's like to have their land stolen from them.

Basically what I'm saying is Irish were fucked over too even if the history books downplay it. You know what they say about the victors writing history.

Going from being forcibly starved out of their country to making an impact in judiciary, politics, and the police in less than fifty years is an example to any ethnicity.

Thanks Moe, I didn't know there was such a stark difference between Irish and Scotch-Irish. Never know that the famine was a codeword for genocide either.

The Irish definitely went through horrific persecution in their home country. One big difference is that they did not achieve that upward mobility in the same place they were persecuted, because they would have been blocked from doing so systematically. That's the point I'm getting at, is that racism is systematic and in America has been conditioned into society possibly unlike anywhere else. People think because there are no Jim Crow laws anymore that racism is non-existent but just because it's not labeled directly doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Much like how you just taught me about what was perceived as "famine" in Ireland was actually genocide, imagine someone telling you adamantly "The Irish never experienced anything like genocide, they just ran out of potatoes, it says it right there in the history book". When people say "segregation ended in the 60's, get over it", they fail to realize that just because the explicitly racist laws were taken off the books, it's not like racism was turned off like a light switch. Honestly, one look at some of the users on this forum should show you that plenty of racist attitudes persist to this day. Which are passed down and onward.

That's my thing with Trump, I don't think he's particularly racist but he is staunchly supported by and consistently panders to a racist base and I can't support that. Personally, I think he's an egomaniac who considers himself above everyone regardless, but that's almost every politician. I've said before that in my opinion the most powerful and dangerous enemy of the working/middle class in America is unbridled capitalism and corporate welfare, but people are too occupied with bullshit wedge issues and blind partisanship to come together against things that hurt all of us regardless of race.