I already made my points, you cant just minimize them because it helps your own narrative.
My points, again, I repeat, again are that there is ambiguity in all these articles because the exact truth is unknown.
"Penniless" is either a lie or extremely exaggerated. Even in context, there was a lot of money being made in 1998.
I know the unions arent cleaned up to this date and not all involve Italian organized crime. My point is that during the "overhaul" of 210 it was impossible to route out all Maia ties and influence, as is the case today in 2018. A duck is a duck. Great theatrics by the current administration of 210 then but it was very unwise of the feds to allow them to govern and regulate themselves, hence the comment made by feds in that article.
Fino changes his story every few years to benefit himself, that is my point.
Its not just "duh" or "youre so hung up"...its my beliefs and my opinion and you point out what you believe to be non evidence is not non evidence to me. Do you understand that? Or?
By 1996, federal investigators declared they had not fully cleaned up the union. That is fact. That's why they continued the oversight for another decade. If you can find me an article from 2006, saying that they have not been able to uproot the mob's influence on the union, then you'll have a good point.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST
Nicky;
For whatever the reason is I feel like you are not directly responding to my posts/questions.
I wanted to form my own opinion based on all the articles that all you guys have posted Nicky, Rooster, Nickel City.
The problem with this statement is that neither Nickle or Rooster have linked anything from a reputable source which indicates the Buffalo crime family is still an active crime family. You can argue that "maybe they're hierarchy isn't exact," but the fact is nothing that Nickle and Rooster have posted indicates that there is any sort of organized crime structure from the Todaro crime family. If the Canadian crime groups have moved in, that's a whole nother story.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I initially started out leaning towards your opinion with the fact of what you had said regarding no arrests in the last 10 years approxiamatly.
However, after reading all the articles and especially the 2017 arrests and the subsiquent news articles I just do not think so anymore... If you could answer my questions that would be great.
My questions are:
In your opinion when did the family become officially defunct?
I've answered this one before, Bensonhurst. Like I said, the FBI officially produced their last chart for the family in 2006. However, the chart seemed to only list surviving members, not indicative of any structure. The reason I say this is because, if accurate, the chart would have only had 2 soldiers per crew, which we know isn't a good model. So I believe the family probably died around 2006. Because I believe that was the time in which the FBI still had enough members in the family to produce a chart, but not enough to produce a chart that actually made sense.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST
What proof are you using to support that? Specifically...
Not general FBI.. LE. Joe Newspaper guy, Frankie journalist, etc, etc.....
Please state specifically on this date:_____________
I.E. NICKY, ----> Response---> The family became defunct in 1987, I say that because of this article:______________- I.E. ---> Response----> The family became defunct in 2000, I say that becasue that is when the FBI said they cleaned up the union, here is the FBI press release ___________________.
There is no exact moment in which a family says "Okay everybody, pack your things up, we're now defunct." It simply doesn't work like that. The family fades away overtime. That makes it impossible to name an exact date when a family goes defunct.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST
I am a little confused because you point to Fino being someone that is a reliable source and if that is fact
No I didn't. I've said numerous times that Fino isn't a totally reliable source, since he flipped in 1989. Don't put words in my mouth Bensonhurst.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST
FACT MEANING all sides argee:
Fact does not mean "all sides agree." I WISH that it did. For example, Rooster has presented NO PROVEN FACTS to back up his narrative, by I have produced many facts to back up mine.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST
If in fact FINO is relaible I have just read an article from Fino from 2012 that states that the union has not been 100% cleaned up.
My two specific questions for you NICKY, are:
1) When is the defunct date? Please provide proof you used to make that call??
Quit going on about this defunct date Bensonhurst. What are you trying to prove by it? There IS no defunct date.
Originally Posted by BensonHURST
2) When was the union specifically cleaned up, date? It would have to be after 2012 becasue of the fact from begining to end you have listed FINO as a reliable source probably a 1/2 a dozen times.
Jesus Christ Bensonhurst... If you want to participate in this thread you'll have to listen...
Fino is not the be-all-end-all of reliable sources. Rooster was the first person to cite Fino as a reliable source. I pointed out that, although Fino knew what the inner workings of the family looked like, he could not accurately know what is going on in the unions today without it being educated speculation, since he flipped in 1989.
Bensonhurst. If you believe Rooster, Nickle, and exposed liar Giacomo over the feds, DAs, federal prosecutors, investigative journalists, and mob experts, go ahead.
