Thanx Furio sorry if I was confusing you at all with the Op name ... But that's it that was the case I was curious about I only knew of DeSimone,Croce,Francomanos, and Castracucco... The other guy I never had heard of before would you say the rest of the group are non made guys as to why I could of missed them before or is Clem Castracucco not Made as well? Based on there ages back in 2009 this was a somewhat young crew of guys operating together .... We're all these guys part of DeSimones crew that he was acting for ?