Joe Saunders was Joe C father nickname. Joe C took control of his father's crew around August of 2013. Buffalo made 2, Utica made 2, and Hamilton made 2. The making ceremonies happened sometime between fall of 2012 to spring of 2013 for Buffalo. It was a big push for the family as by 2000 and on they were making one member ever two to three years in downsizing the family. My sources are UW, bookies, rounders, and pushers.
No, no other capos were mentioned, only Joe Saunders from Brooklyn.
Sorry, Giacomo, I assumed you were talking about Joe C because Joe Saunders was in prison at the time, very sick, and Joe C was sometimes called Joe Saunders Jr.
Anyways, why do you think Joe Saunders would have approved any sort of making ceremony? He was, like I said earlier, in prison (serving 15 years for murder conspiracy) and was very sick (even when he was sentenced in 2005 he had a myriad of ailments and was sent straight to Butner). He was in North Carolina during the timeframe you are talking about, close to death.
Sorry, maybe I'm blanking here, but what does UW stand for? Also, if "bookies, rounders and pushers" are talking about this kind of high-end shit, why hasn't anyone else heard of this? Vinny Asaro was blabbing to wired-up Gary Valenti about admin changes, captain's meetings, etc. during this exact timeframe you've suggested, but nothing about Buffalo. Pug Lovaglio was a high-ranking capo and informant during this time. JR Rubeo and that FBI agent never mentioned any Buffalo ties. Anthony Zoccolillo would have known about it 100%, he had ties to Genovese and Bonanno capos from both Manhattan (Patty Falcetti), and Brooklyn (Ernie Aiello and the Williamsburg crew) and he was an FBI agent during this time as well.
Also, I might be nitpicking at this point, but Joe C was in charge of his father's crew the moment his dad got sentenced to that 15-years. Wasn't he charged as a capo in 2007?
It is alright. Just because someone is in prison, does not mean they cannot communicate with the outside world.
I just don't see why a near-death, sick, old, former capo in a medical prison in North Carolina is approving making ceremonies. The feds nowadays are very strict on prison communications.
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
As I said before it was Senior, as this person chased a Capo from Florida on probation back down there. He is the only capo I know of the circumstances to do so.
You talking about Tartaglione?
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Joe Jr. Was only an acting Capo. Ernie was one of two acting capos for Nicky the Mouth.
Let's agree to disagree on the Joe Jr. thing. And yes, I know Ernie's story all too well but he was quite a high-ranking acting capo because he is the cousin/nephew of imprisoned boss Mike Mancuso, who relayed messages through Ernie on the outside with a series of letters.
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
You know, in Donnie Brasco, his character was killed in with the three capos, who h in real life was not the case.
I always found that funny. I wonder what Nicky Cigars thinks about that movie hehe.
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Just because someone has access to a Capo or many capos does not mean they know everything.
Naturally. But in your case, you are saying that bookies and all sorts of seemingly low-ranking people know about the Buffalo making ceremony thing, whereas no rats that would seemingly have access to such knowledge - high ranking rats like Pete Lovaglio and low-ranking rats like Anthony Zoccolillo - have said anything about the matter, despite the fact that it would be really big news if true. Also, another argument to that is that somehow wiseguys or wannabe wiseguys are telling you about all this, yet nobody in Buffalo law enforcement knows about it. But there's no real way to prove that, so no point arguing about that.
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Case in point me personally knew and know San Jose Figlia, the Cerrito brothers, the Ditri brothers, Cusenza family, the Novello brothers, the Bracco brother, San Francisco Lanza Brothers, LaRocca brothers, Lima family, Bonanno and Profaci families, and mostly the Sciortino family, but I did not know 100 percent until later in life, and even 15 to 20 percent I am not sure. Do I know people in in other cities and Canada, Mexico, and Sicily? Yes, but I don't know everything.
If you don't mind me asking, how do you have so many sources? It seems you have sources from all over the place, but why they would tell you stuff and not a paying consumer like LE, news journalists, GL news, is beyond me. Also, why do you call it the Profaci family? I know about all the history with Joe Profaci, but I'm sure you know all too well that it's been called the Colombo family since the 70s.
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
The problem between us, is you are a man of concrete evidence and I am a man of hear say who knows some reliable sources. Nothing wrong with that on either of us.
Totally agree on that front. Nothing wrong with a street-knowledge man, and a hard-evidence man. But I do feel the need to poke holes in people's information if need be. I think you understand that that's fair enough. You might know your 100% right, but I don't know that, and many posters are exposed bullshitters or at least partially wrong and if that sort of stuff goes unchecked then that's no way to have a discussion. So, to reiterate, don't take offense if I question and refute your story. I don't know you at all, so nothing I say is a personal attack against you. If there are questions or plot holes in people's information, I ask. Unfortunately, none of your information is really backed up by anything and Buffalo law enforcement, DAs, etc. have consistently said the family is dead. Whereas, when a guy like Bensonhurst offers his information, I can often personally back it up with my own researched knowledge, as well as information I have required through "sources," although I try not to post that sort of street-talk stuff. But, that's not to say that I can't find fault with anything Bensonhurst says. I agree with some stuff he says, like stuff about Nicky Rizzo in another conversation, and I can also call him out and grill him on other stuff like an early 00s making ceremony from another thread. So I'm not strictly "anti street talk," but I'm just anti-bullshit. You have been respectful for this entire thread Giacomo, so I can have a proper discussion with you about this sort of stuff. Whereas, when a guy like Rooster comes in here and calls people delusional for not believing his baseless story, and is just a complete smartass, that's where I might come across as hostile.
For the record: 1. I believe Rooster is at least a partial liar/bullshitter considering his story just doesn't add up, and he seems to have ghosted this thread once I started laying out the real questions. If you're reading this Rooster, which I have no doubt you are, I have posted the questions to you twice, and if you've answered them previously, show me where. 2. I really don't know enough about Giacomo to comment, but (whilst others on other forums strongly disagree), I don't consider him a bullshitter. Nothing he says is completely out of this realm, and whilst I don't believe him, I wouldn't bet money against it. 3. I think Bensonhurst is "in the know," in some way shape or form. His information is solid. I can back some of it up, and have called him out on info I don't believe.
