@Aces, That last statement just sounds like a bland, lying, politician's statement who knows facts confirm certainties they don't really want to admit. They think any admission will contradict their entire arguement - when, in fact, a small acknowledgement here and there of the facts would actually show just how rounded their view was.

@ BF, You didn't really disagree with any of my earlier points/stats, your only real common reaction was that of a chastised teenager lost for words (zzz). Your only real responses seem to deflect onto crimes committed within white ethnic groups for some reason? Don't get all defensive, it makes you sound like you don't want to hear anything except your own opinion. We could discuss white, Asian, Muslim or whatever crime stats no problem. But, lets not muddy the waters and, lets face it, there's no huge movements of any real note amongst any of these other groups that have gotten any traction or indeedbackfired so spectacularly on their own communities as the ones we've mentioned in the thread.

I know quoting stats/facts does make for some tedious reading, but it's got to be done at some point, otherwise we all just shout our own opinions and beliefs. And that's the ENTIRE point of the thread - black people are told constantly that they are the "victim" of external forces out to get them and they must think this way - victimhood is big business these days.

Who cares if it was 3 totally well intentioned women who did start the BLM movement? It's the way in which it's been hijacked that matters now - a vehicle to reinforce victimhood mentality and create deeper social divisions.

Gangs ARE the main cause of black deaths, surely you don't disagree? That, and most of the other stats are there to show you as clearly as anyone can, that the biggest problem (and the prime solution) lies within the communities themselves, not externally? (At least not initially).

I also presented you a balanced view and acknowledged the challenges being faced, with schooling etc, but, again, I reckon you chose just to skip over any acknowledgement of possible common ground at the risk of feeling you'll lose face with all your points (you wouldn't) and that's the reason this issue will never go away....when people have an extremely strong held belief (rational or otherwise), it's extremely difficult to have them accept any fact to the contrary...

Oh, and again, INSTITUTIONAL racism does not exist on any real scale these days- show me any laws which intend this? PERSONAL racism does of course, and always will unfortunately. You simply can't change every single individual's thoughts or beliefs, but we can adjust/create laws which will make it punishable to act on any which disadvantage others....which there now are and have been for years.

Lastly, the foreigner argument you use...ZZZZ! (To quote you). Get yourself a passport and look around the world a bit, inspire yourself and create some ambition. Find out how other societies act/react to various issues. Research other political regimes. I'll bet I know far more about American politics and societal issues than the majority of Americans.