Originally Posted By: Ciment
Originally Posted By: antimafia
Originally Posted By: Ciment
I respectfully disagree with your analysis:

Claude Poirier's second theory is not valid and you admit it yourself, the attack came from the Montagna camp. Then you kind of lost me when you say in the next paragraph that if the second theory is true ? There is no proof that it is and I say also provide me the proof. With regards to Luppino not having a big family is subjective. Ndrangheta is based on blood ties and alliances made with other families and having marriage ties to the biggest Ndrangheta family in the GTA is proof enough that you don't mess with them. Then you lost me again when you talk about the marriage relation between the Luppino's and the Commisso's and make a distinction with the Violi's. The children from that marriage would make the Violi's cousins.
With regards to permission, Violi's alone would not be strong enough to take out a powerful clan like the Rizzuto's they would need the backing from the GTA and the coup would affect the GTA clans,that is why permission is needed.
In the Vanelli attempted murder, this could of come from other groups including the Rizzuto clan among others, we don't know.
I also don't find it a coincidence that different members from the Rizzuto rival clans visited Hamilton & Toronto Ndrangheta clans.
Why would they be consulting if not for the reason of collusion.
The Ndrangheta promotes expansion, that is why they are based in several countries and I do not see why they would hold back on Montreal. By the same token, I do not see the Sicilian clan go away because they believe in blood ties also and there are plenty living in Montreal and Laval to select new recruits. At the moment the momentum is not with them and there will probably be new people taking control or sharing the proceeds of crime with other OC groups which will include the Ndrangheta.


You seem to have written the above in anger and, as a result, quite possibly in haste.

Some posters get the impression from an earlier post of yours that only you and eurodave are qualified to reliably comment on the goings-on of organized crime in Quebec.

The post I've quoted above seems to be conveying to me and other posters that now we aren't allowed to comment on the goings-on of organized crime in Ontario, despite the fact some of us live in this province.

Giuseppe and Domenico Violi are indeed Rosetta Commisso's nephews. Other than Rosetta Commisso and Domenico Luppino's children, no one related to Rosetta is related to these Violis. Even if Rosetta were a sibling of Cosimo, Remo, and Michele Commisso, these Violis would not be related to the Commisso brothers. (Incidentally, the Commisso brothers' mother, Emilia, died in March 2015. All the obituaries and death notices I have read do not mention any children other than the three aforementioned brothers.)

By your logic, the Commissos would be related to the Rizzutos. But they are not.

I have more to write about the errors in your post, and the only way I can do that is to provide the evidence from a number of books and the odd French-language article. Stay tuned.


I checked the obituary and it mentions Cherished Nonna and Bis-Nonna.

And it doesn't mention whose kids they are.

Tell me antimafia is this another one of your lies ?


You are free to comment on anyone's posts, as am I. I hope you continue to comment on my posts because I will certainly continue to comment on yours. Any poster should feel comfortable commenting on the accuracy, veracity, and speculation found in another's post, as long as the commenting is done in a certain manner, i.e., is civil, respectful, non-shaming, etc.--this is an ideal when providing criticism of someone else's post, and I know that we posters often fall short.

I don't think you were trying to convey that you are going to be disrespectful to me in the future to the point that you would risk a temporary or permanent suspension from the board--I am not making a threat; nor am I giving you advice.

I've linked below to the page you either have in your files or may have come upon when you were searching for Emilia Commisso's obituary online:


If I am understanding you properly, you are suggesting or know for a fact that the Commisso brothers' children and grandchildren are related to Giuseppe and Domenico Violi. Should you not be correct, it's water under the bridge.

Should you be correct, I won't hesitate to apologize to you, not only because it's the right thing to do but also because a number of organized-crime authors and experts who have influenced my view of the relationship between the Commisso brothers and the Violi sons' father (Paolo) and uncles were either off the mark or caused me not to think of the possibility that the Commisso brothers would have better relations with Paolo's sons than with Paolo and his brothers.

In short, the tensions between the Commisso brothers and the Violis in the 1970s arose from 1) strongly differing opinions about Mommo Piromalli in Gioia Tauro, Reggio Calabria; and 2) the Siderno Group's being upset with Paolo Violi's having violated 'ndrangheta protocol when he enlisted a Siderno Group member in a caper in Toronto without first seeking permission. To this I might add, although the subject is different, that the Commissos' befriending Nick Rizzuto Sr. in the 1970s--especially after Paolo Violi was killed--must have been a supreme insult to the Luppino group in Hamilton.

Each 'ndrina looks after its own members first and foremost, even when it's part of a locale. What you consider to be splitting hairs, I consider to be crucial to figuring out why, over the GTA Siderno Group's 60-to-65-year history, certain 'ndrine in the group are aligned with other 'ndrine and with 'ndrine in Calabria (and now in other parts of Italy); why disagreements may erupt between individuals who are somehow related by blood or marriage; why the camera di controllo, or la commissione, is more a tool for dispute resolution than the coordination of what each 'ndrina does.

The Luppino-Violi group in Hamilton is a 'ndrina that is autonomous; so if Paolo Violi's sons wanted to kill the people who were involved in plotting their father's murder and who committed it, there has never been any necessity to get the okay from the more powerful Siderno Group in the GTA. The various 'ndrangheta groups in Ontario do not have to act--and should not act--as one man. But insofar as some of these disparate groups may have been or are collaborating together, say, for the takeover of the Montreal Mafia, disagreements or splits should not be surprising to anyone.

In my time I have made some embarrassing posts on this forum and others; below is a link to the post on this forum that caused me the most embarrassment afterward:


I am certainly not above making factual errors in my posts but I will admit I am more prone to making poor predictions, as many of us have done during this Montreal mob war.

In the past 11 years there has been a treasure trove of information about the GTA Siderno Group for serious and recreational researchers. The GTA Siderno Group is the criminal group I spend the most time actually researching because you really have to do a lot of excavating in the Italian-language government documents and arrest warrants. The odd time, posters have asked me a question about the group on this forum, and I've tried my best to answer to the best of my ability. You have an avid interest in the 'ndrangheta groups in Ontario and in the scarce but historic presence of Siderno Group members in Quebec, as do I, so please don't hesitate to ask me about family trees, investigations targeting the Siderno Group, and anything else. For the past little while I have been working on constructing a tree for Paolo Violi and his family, and what struck me is how no organized-crime authors or reporters seem to have ever followed up on whatever happened to Rocco Violi's wife and her children--this is material for another thread; so I'll save the information for later.