@johnnydoves


Chicago established an absence of competition in a different way than NY.

Chicago is like what NY might have looked like if Maranzano woulda ultimately won, and all the gangs of NY were consolidated into one. Better yet, it's what NY might have looked like eventually if Luciano hadn't gone to jail, he might have lead a more integrated underworld. Instead of a real war of attrition, the NY guys cut deals, formed a criminal cartel, in Chicago there WAS an attempt at a cartel, but the guys wouldn't play by the rules, so there was war until one side absolutely won.


I tried explaining to Iveyleague lots of times that the density of NY, makes it the most, I don't wanna say recession proof, but it's not vulnerable to any ONE industry failing. ( Not like Detroit with the auto industry, or Cleveland and Pittsburgh with the steel..) Shit Wall Street meltdowns can't slow down NY. The money NEVER STOPS THERE. So there is always business to siphon from, the territory is rich, so a POWER SYNDICATE WILL ALWAYS FLOURISH THERE. The fact that there are five gangs too strong to overpower one another means THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO KEEP MAKING GUYS IN NY., to keep the status quo.
( it's an interesting thing to me, in cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, to me, the mafia existed to take advantage of opportunities created by the presence of a strong middle class, based of well paying union and maybe manufacturing jobs. I mean discretionary income to gamble, whatever. When these jobs went, the REASON for the mafias existence there, went. This is something that will probably never affect NY, there will always be an economic climate conducive to criminal activity. Lots of people don't seem to see it this way. In a city like Chicago, or New Orleans I think, it's the climate of corruption that enables the criminals to flourish. Like the mafia exist to take advantage of the CLIMATE OF CORRUPTION, it's much more like what you see in Sicily. Where the actual politicians are another species of gangster. You talking about like, LaGuardia tried to throw the mob out, Anton Cermak tried to REPLACE THEM WITH HIS OWN GANG!!!!



If a made guy died in another city, his cut of the action enriches the remaining guys. So unless say, you wanted to get a protege or family member made, or unless the new guy is bringing in a NEW REVENUE STREAM, the established guys would have NO incentive to initiate a new guy and split the pie into smaller pieces. This is just business, an Oil boss will never INVEST in the new guy talking about wind power. He'll lobby the government to shut the guy down, to protect his entrenched interest. You saw this inChicago with Colosimo being reluctant to enter bootlegging, or In the Godfather movie, where Vito is reluctant to enter the new frontier of drugs, over what he knows, gambling and unions. (Power syndicate operations vs enterprise syndicate operations, it was a war of criminal ideologies a little bit....)

See in a city like Chicago, or the other families around the country, there is one organization. So there is no incentive to KEEP making guys. It would be different if made guys from other cities could come into your territory, you might have seen families outside NY reach 100 members or more, to compete with the larger numbers from bigger families. But that splits the pie into MORE pieces. How else you explain the size of the smaller families, or the Commission acknowledging some of these TINY families. (Think San Jose) This is why they got old and died out, people act like they lack the criminal acumen, that's not what it is.. The ironic thing to me is the most capable guys in the Outfit, WERNT ITALIAN. They were irreplaceable when it came time to replace em. 50 young guys with their fingers pricked couldn't replace Humphreys, Larner, Alex, these type of guys.
Plus after the FBI got involved, long term, there was less and less percentage in joining the mafia.
Now NY, is different. If a made guy dies, ANOTHER made guy, either from another family, or within the same family can move into that racket. So they kinda HAVE to keep the numbers static, this is why Anastasia selling memberships was such a big deal.

When I see the question, " How do they have a family with no made guys?", and Johhny don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think a lot of people understand the CONCEPT of a made guy and what it means, how it works.

It's, like you actually believe you HAVE to be an Italian to make a book. Or loan money, make a drug connect, basically to be a criminal, which to me, is just a miscalculation.

Look at it this way, in the period from 1957- what? 1975 I think, no one, save for few special exceptions ( I'm sure someone on here knows a couple names...) was made in NY. Now, let me ask you, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE GANGSTERS IN THE STREET DIDNT KNOW WHO TO RESPECT? Who was for real, and who wasn't? And do you REALLY believe this respect stems simply from getting your finger pricked? It's like when Gravano talked about Gambinos nephew, him being Gambinos nephew didn't guarantee him respect. Any respect the nephew got was really respect for CARLO. See how the guy got kidnapped....

Think to Sammys book, where he describes Shorty Spero. He says even though he wasn't made, it was a technicalilty. Not only was he respected like a made guy, but he was respected like a Capo. Similar situations I think for a lot of guys during that time period, like Gotti running the Bergin.
People don't seem to get that the Outfit had a TON of criminals who were the real fuckin deal, and WERNT Italian. It's come up on the boards before, why does the Italian DeSimone get hit and not Jimmy Burke? Cause Burke was just a better fuckin criminal.

I'm rambling now, Any thoughts fellas??