Originally Posted By: OakAsFan

Just asking a question, that's all. You said you're hoping to avoid being "dependent on government" (which I assume entails needing social security at an advanced age) by working hard and making smart choices. So, I just asked you if you think people on social security didn't work hard or make smart choices. Do you?


Simply answer, No.


Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
thedudeabides,

Let me say this.

I hope you do succeed to the point to where you won't need social security.

I also hope social security is there for you, in case you don't.

I think that's the best way to articulate my argument.


Thank you, I hope the same for you.

Some people no doubt need it because of things beyond their control and I would never discourage them from doing so.

Originally Posted By: OakAsFan


Let's call it 200k/year.

The vast, vast majority of Americans will never see that. Just a statistical fact.


I agree but it is not impossible and not a "fantasy"

Originally Posted By: getthesenets
Dude,

just got finished watching the Glenn Beck "Founding Fathers" clip you put up a while back.Thanks. Definitely interesting. Beck has to throw in some of the garbage of course, but pretty interesting. I had some good debates on this site about "Black History Month" and I've always said that It exists because the contributions of Africans were omitted from general American history books. Not by coincidence either.
When they take questions at the end, the people are clearly plants and it looks like an infomercial.


I wish I had learned this in highschool so I didn't have to hear the commentary but that is media at its "best," at a very leat you can learn something if you are a fan of history it is very interesting and a good watch.

Originally Posted By: getthesenets
I find myself agreeing with both "sides" of the discussion.

During the Great Depression...proud men who would have NEVER asked anybody for anything stood in soup lines. They would preferred to work, but they would swallow pride before starving to death or allowing their kids to starve.

FDR, and his policies kept the country from falling apart.* He created programs that helped people, put Americans back to work , and created safety nets.

The govt. gave people fish, taught them to fish, and stocked lakes with fish....figuratively.

I support govt. agencies and private organizations that teach people to fish and that give fish to those who can't fish (children and the elderly.)


*I got a preview of what a collapse of society could look like during Hurricane Sandy's aftermath.....NJ came this close from descending into Lord of the Flies.A few more days and it would have been total chaos.


As usual, I agree with most of your post I am on both sides but at some point, people relied on receiving fish so much they become dependent on it and not learning how to fish.


FDR- “The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is in violation of the traditions of America.”

I cannot take away the fact the some people do need it.

The Dude: And, you know, he's got emotional problems, man.
Walter Sobchak: You mean... beyond pacifism?


Walter Sobchak: This guy f*cking walks. I've never been so sure of anything in my entire life