@cleanbandit - yea I agree thats where it kinda started to derail for me too I was jw if anyone has heard of the Bucceroni guy

@dixie- good point buddy forgot about Bianco..so its def.possible Batts got made in early 60s..just thought especially in the Gambinos they held off making guys bc of the whole Scalise selling buttons in that very fam but u may well be right

@binnie- thanks for the response pal..I remember reading that.too,but did u ever hear Rugsy Vario and Bruno Facciolo were involved in the setup? Itd make sense since they're Vario crew members