Originally Posted By: BronaZora
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
Originally Posted By: SinatraClub
Of course they do, but this was beginning to happen even while Vito was alive.


I'll have to disagree somewhat. Yea Vito was still alive, but he was locked up in the U.S. We seen what happened once he came back home.

Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
There stil a few others left, such as Arcadi and Emanuele Ragusa


Didn't Ragusa get out of the game after getting out? I know there has been NOTHING about him in the papers or anything since he did. Supposedly him and Vito were best friends.

Originally Posted By: BronaZora
This is also a testimony that Vito Rizzuto must be one of the best bosses of all time to be able to hold all these crews together operating as a single independent family. He was probably the only figure that kept the Montreal Mob powerful and competitive with the the Siderno group, with his passing the 'Ndrangheta hold the power in Canada easily.


Very true. He was well known for keeping everyone happy (majority anyways). He had the Hell's Angels, the street gangs, and everybody else in between was working together under Vito.

Originally Posted By: BobbyPazzo
I don't think this was happening before Vito went to jail, there was no question who controlled Montreal back then, it was the Rizzutos, things began to crumble when Vito went jail, there was no charismatic leader left to keep it all together, so it fell apart.


Very true. They wouldn't dare pull this stunt if Vito was out. He just had too much power up there.


I acknowledged he was in prison. However they still started to become the bigger power while Vito was alive. That's a fact. He just couldt do anything about it anyway. And the likes of Di Maul o, the Haitian dude, and a couple others were killed supposedly at the hands of Vito.

But the killings of most of the Calabrians, for example Salvatore Calautti. You cannot credit to Vito Rizzuto. As information has since been released that those deaths came as a result of an internal war between 'Ndrangheta clans in both Calabria and Canada.


And again IM NOT SAYING THAT THE NDRANGHETA CONTROLLED MONTREAL WHILE VITO WAS ALIVE AND IN PRISON (nor did I EVER say that in my posts). HOWEVER WHILE HE WAS ALIVE AND IN PRISON, THE NDRANGHETA BECAME THE DOMINANT ORGANIZED CRIME GROUP IN CANADA. CANADA IS MUCH BIGGER THAN JUST MONTREAL.


Canada is a big place indeed, but Italian Mafia presence is mainly confined to two areas, Montreal and the Toronto/Hamilton area.

Anyways, I agree that with or without Vito the Siderno were growing strong, but with Vito on top and in prime, they had very little to no influence on Montreal, with him gone however, it's a different story.

You also mentioned that they forced Vito into accepting some of their decisions (The Panepinto hit for example), keep in mind that these were related to matters in the Toronto area where it's their turf, so naturally Vito acknowledged them.



That's true, but keep in mind I never said they had influence in Montreal when Vito was at his prime. I don't know how that got interpreted as such in the first place. I said they were growing in a stature that was comparable to the Montreal Mafia, at that time. And you're right, Mafia presence is based in Montreal & The Toronto/Hamilton area. But while the Calabrians as in the Ndrangheta groups couldn't gain a foothold in Montreal before Vito was convicted and extradited, the Montreal family never gained a foothold in The Toronto, Ontario/Hamilton area, while Vito was at his prime. They tried to, but they never really succeeded with that. The Panepinto is an example of that. Vito was definitely friendly with the Musitanos , but I don't believe even they allowed Vito to establish a base in their town.

I respect Vito Rizzuto and all he did, and I've always been the first to admit and always one of the most vocal about Vito's prowess and how powerful he was in order to accomplish all he did, break away from the Bonannos and essentially create his own psuedo neo-Sicilian Mob Family, which also consisted of the remainder of the "Calabrian Faction". But his influence was mostly based in his town, Montreal. He definitely earned with everyone and managed to do enough to work with the Calabrian clans without stepping on toes. But again most of his influence was based in Montreal.

Last edited by SinatraClub; 06/03/16 12:43 PM.