@ Ivey
See this is what I mean Ivey, I actually DID have reason to doubt Tieri as the biggest loan shark, and gave you all kind of reasons why, but it was, no you are stupid, and wrong. And the thing was, my choice was Salerno, ( or Catena) not a Midwest guy, who was said to have 80 million on the street, based of 20 years of running Harlem, the big money crews. How would Tieri have 90 million on the street in Brooklyn? Why wasn't he higher on the Forbes list? He would have to dominate there, but how could he when there are three other families based there? How many capos is that? 20? 25?And the Genovese base is Manhattan? That to me seemed off, not some damn fanboy obsession, but by that point it was like you made up your mind...
I posted a link naming Jiggs Forlano as the top shark in NY, and referenced his Connection to Ruby Stein, another huge shark. Jigs operated in Brooklyn, Colombo territory. So where was Funzis status when Jiggs was tops? I mentioned the part in the Demeo book, where Tieri wanted to know what happened to Ruby Steins book, that was stolen by the Westies. So it was pretty clear, anyone associated with this Stein, benefited from HIM being a huge shark, Tieri probably "inherited" the guy somehow after Forlano died. I mean, can you explain that? I would love to hear that, not some bullshit about how I'm a fanboy lol...
First, I'm not sure why you're referencing that Forbes list, which wasn't really based on anything substantive. If you look at that list, they tried to include at least someone from just about every family rather than who actually was the wealthiest, most powerful, etc.
Second, I'm not aware of any in depth analysis or report on the top loanshark in the country that could be a definitive answer for us. I do know that Tieri was identified as such by the NYPD at one point. I have also seen Forlano identified as such. The way I see it, it's safest to give the benefit of the doubt to a NY guy. And within that sphere, probably a Genovese guy. Why? Not because I'm biased but because of what we know about the relative size of mob operations in both NY and the country. I'm fact, any well informed, objective observer should require quite a bit of convincing evidence to think it wouldn't be someone from NY.
On the Gus Alex nephew thing, when you guys say, there aren't that many young guys, there is no narcotics involvement, you gotta understand, I don't know HOW MANY there are, but you are wrong there, point blank period, I know cause I KNOW AT LEAST ONE LOL, and this guy, like I tried to tell you before, operates like a NY guy, with shit all over the place. Now my point was where there was smoke, there is probably fire, if there is one, there might be more, don't tell me it's impossible, that's ridiculous..
Once again, I don't recall much about this Gus Alex thing you keep bringing up. Either way, it seems largely immaterial to the present discussion because you're point is anecdotal and about one guy. I'm talking about general trends here and, generally speaking, the Outfit has relatively little involvement in narcotics. Anyone can see that in the Outfit cases over the past 15 years.
Also, Chicago is as corrupt as Wall Street is greedy, the mob may not control it, but it is an entity unto itself, it's never going away. You guys forget, the Mayor of NY ran Costello out, and Dewey put the biggest boss there in jail for 50 years. AT A TIME WHEN THEY WERE POWERFUL AS HELL. Cermak tried the mob, and got WACKED OUT, if you don't think that had some lasting effect on the succeeding generation of politicians, well.....
This is what I meant by you guys don't get how corrupt it is here, but you may have a point in that it's hard to tell if it's the mob, or just ingrained dynastic nepotism in say for example, the unions, but that's what I mean, the lines are blurred.
The problem is you and others talk about the Chicago Outfit and Chicago corruption like they're synonymous. They're not. Linked at times, yes, but not the same thing. Chicago always having some level of corruption doesn't mean the Outfit is never going away. Look at recent trends. Back in 1997, the Outfit was said to have approximately 70 members. Nearly 20 years later, it's not even half that. Even if one wants to include associates in the mix, because Chicago is "so different" from the other families, the total size is still only comparable to the other handful of small families left outside NY. You guys turn a blind eye to the #1 killer of mob families - attrition. Not the feds. Not rats. Attrition. That's why numbers DO matter. As I pointed out before, Louisiana has always had a lot of corruption too. But attrition still finished off the Marcello family. Yes, the Outfit is a bigger organization than his was but the same still applies. Somebody would willfully have to turn a blind eye not to see it.
And Ivey, I honestly think YOU don't understand how big NY is. Like I think you think a restaurant in NY will absolute beat one in say, Iowa. But you don't take into account the nature of NY. The density, the competition, the cost, of doing business and staying competitive. Liscenses, all that shit. You take a 5 star restaurant in NY, it's a dime a dozen, it could be outta business within a year. You put the same restaurant somewhere much smaller, it might be the most happenin, chic thing in the city, and make more money. I was reading an article about carting in NY, and how some big carters said collecting trash in NY was more expensive than anticipated, ( even though it clearly has like, the most trash, it COST MORE TO PICK IT UP)they are now moving into recycling and turning trash into energy. You check out that show Billions? There is a cute scene where they talk about a guy has a food cart and his brother undercuts him by selling the same food at 50 cents cheaper, RIGHT NEXT TO HIM, THATS BUSINESS IN NEW YORK FOR YOU.... Like I have a friend, she lives in Hanoi now, teaching English, she moved to NY thinking it was going to fulfill her or some shit, it CRUSHED HER, she wasn't prepared for the intensity of it. Her sister graduated from like Yale law or some shit, she had to move back in with her parents cause the comp was too intense for jobs.... Same deal here in the Chi, Jimmy Johns moved to like Florida or some shit cause the City, though a bigger market, cost too much more to operate in...
While Im not saying there isnt competition, I do think in order to make your point you and others overstate this thing about competition between the NY families. The greater NY metro area has had 5 families for a century or so precisely because it CAN accommodate those families. The NY families have generally worked together and there's been enough for everyone. And actually, now more than ever, I'd argue that them all being in the same area is as much a help to them as anything. They have intersecting interests and are able to pool their resources at times. This presents a much bigger, more daunting task for law enforcement than a single, small family out on its own island, so to speak.
You guys keep going back to the Outfit having Chicago all to itself. Well it's not just about how big and rich a territory is but also a family's ability to exploit that territory. It's why, similar to my New Orleans comparison, I brought up LA. The few members still living there have that huge city mostly to themselves, in terms of the LCN, but it doesn't really benefit them all that much. Once again, while the Outfit is obviously much bigger operation, the same applies.
Chicago could arguably be called the most corrupt city in the US. It doesn't change the fact that the Outfit has vastly decreased in both its size and it's scope of operations.
