Originally Posted By: fergie
Faithful, Im honestly not mocking religion, or at least trying not to. Ive said nearly a dozen times now, I completely get the personal/private faith advantage, its the wider, mainstream rape and abuse of that ideal, and subsequent power, that disgusts me.

1st example of some random madman...1 case proves your point? Ill give you a1000 more examples of people who are religious/argueably sane.

2nd point, Im not a communist! Your mixing ideals up, not for the first time ive experienced that in this conversation.. (No offence taken with the scots comment btw!)

I try not to mock, ok I do slightly, but to say I do that without evidence somehow places religion in the camp of having proved something. The comfort I got at 2-8 years old around Christmas when I knew santa was coming was amazing...be good and this is your reward, be bad and this is what will happen...its smalltown religion. I suppose this just carries on with religion.

My base point is that you cant give someone, or a group of people, power who "believe" in scriptures etc and the doodlings of how ever many people throughout the ages who changed its meaning on a whim.


First, "personal/private faith advantage" -- what does that mean? People who don't talk about their beliefs? Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Second, it's not a "random madman," but a very recent example. I'm sure you can give examples of "religious people" doing bad things, especially with so many different religions. I can also give other examples. The point is this was in response to your fallacy of special pleading that exempted atheists from evildoing while everyone else is apparently guilty of it.

Third, I never said you were a Communist. Nevertheless it is true that Communism is atheistic. Marx, Engels and Lenin were all atheists. So was Stalin, Mao, Ceaușescu, Kim Il whoever of North Korea, Castro, Pol Pot, the French Revolutionary leaders, Calles of Mexico, etc. It is also true that all of these regimes persecuted Christians and committed atrocities. So you cannot honestly say that atheism and atheists are innocent of genocide and other heinous crimes.

Fourth, it's also false to assert that no religion has evidence for its beliefs. We can discuss that on another thread. By the way, faith means "trust" as well as a synonym for religious belief, and trust is placed on fact and credibility. Maybe some religions or beliefs have "blind faith," but that doesn't mean that all do. That's a hasty generalization and it assumes facts not in evidence. On the other hand, I can claim that it takes more faith, more blind faith, to be an atheist. Atheists assume the existence of truth, but if their thoughts are just random electrochemical reactions then it is impossible to know if their thoughts are accurate or anything else for that matter.

Fifth, as for the mockery that you admit that you do, mockery breeds contempt, and contempt can breed hostility. I prefer to have a friendly dialogue. I may challenge your beliefs, but mockery doesn't make friends with anyone. Try bringing that mockery to a mosque and see what happens.