Thats my whole logic on this discussion, book and internet facts. Thats what everyone is giving on here, im trying to fill you guys in on how it really was around here. Book facts dont mean shit in my eyes. I could tell you guys things that never appear in books, but im not gonna go there. Little fact about Whitey, he was a bully towards women, Howie never liked him,personally, he felt you couldnt joke with Whitey, took shit way to serious. He use to wash the cars at Marshal Motors when he first came around Somerville. And you could say Joe Macdonald started the original Winter Hill crew, with Buddy Mclean coming up under Joe, and Howie under Buddy. Sal Sperlinga dealt with the Italians alot of the time when issuses came up.