Originally Posted By: TonyG
Italians and Irish discriminated against each other as they immigrated to the US since, as noted above, they were at the bottom of the barrel and discriminated against by the other Western European immigrants (Germans, English, etc).

St Louis is a very good example of the dynamic. Kerry Patch was the Irish section on the north side and the Hill was the Italian section on the south side. The Irish came first and they held political office and controlled the police department. Of course, the Irish has OC.

The Italians arrived and by the 50's, had largely wiped out the Irish OC elements and taken over the rackets. They also entered politics.

My Irish grandfather discriminated against anyone who was not Irish - he was an equal opportunity hater. I believe it was a way of life back then, and due to ignorance. Suburbia brought the different ethnicities together, and played a role in reducing the discrimination and assimilation.

Today, Kerry Patch is a ghetto as all the Irish left to the suburds. The Hill is a very nice neighborhood and largely Italian.

BTW - my grandfather's racism was not limited to Europeans. When my uncle came home from WWII and had nightmares and trauma from his experiences as a marine fighting the Japanese in the Pacific, my grandfather developed a hatred for anyone Asian, and referred to them all as "dirty japs". Did not matter if they were Chinese or Korean, they were all hated. Ignorance at its very finest.


The Irish held on to East St.Louis and had peace with the Outfit. Strangely enough Raymond Flynn was considered the most dangerous racketeer in St.Louis and he ended up blasting his way the top in St.Louis aided by the Syrians.

The Irish had a strong presence in St.Louis until the mid-80's. They always had East St.Louis anyhow wver since the days of Buster Wortman. They had peace with the Outfit or St.Louis/KC crime families whatever the fuck they called themselves but nobody wanted to fuck with Flynn and that was one Irishman who fought his way to the top and took his place at the top of the union he felt was rightfully his. Whether it was or not he took it.

Remnants of the Syrians is all that exists of the old OC in St.Louis and even their interests probably mostly legit now.


'So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family.'

George Carlin