PB there are still a lot of heavy guys here in Chicago who have yet to do serious time. None of the Caruso brothers have served any time. A lot of the main guys in the Elmwood Park Crew like Gary Gags have not done serious time. Albie Vena has been on the street forever so has Sammy Cards. Before he got sick, Joey Andriacchi ran things for 20 plus years after he was out of prison.