Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
Wow, that was rather thorough explanation of Unions, and Organized Labor does sounds pretty great principally, ideally anyone would like to join a Union if possible.

The problem is that while the philosophical debate on this will continue, people who can do a job cheaper and better will simply always put others out of work. Blacks who were willing to accept a lower wage have been putting white Southerners out of work since the days of sharecropping. Hispanics in the Southwest are virtually the only people you'll ever see at urban construction sites.

Businesses (and populations) from the North have been flocking to the South and West since the 1950's (at the advent of the air conditioner) and before, for its lower taxes, less regulation, cheaper work supply, etc. Northern industries have to find a way to keep up.

These Mid West states have historically been somewhat isolated in terms of demographics, especially compared to the South, where major Unions are virtually implausible given the size and diversity of the population.


Ehhh, prior to 1865 most Black Americans had zero control over their labor and didn't work for wages. But even before the end of slavery and in the five to six decades following its end you can find tons of black leaders and intellectuals inveighing bitterly against the importation of cheap White and Asian immigrant labor that was crowding out black workers. WEB DuBois had quite a lot to say about this in the 1920s.

I do agree that the ultimate issue is that capital wants cheap powerless labor period. At first that's slavery; later it's immigrants. The faces change and the legal structures improve but the demand is the same.

The reason imo that unions never took off in the South was that the South had a particular history of violence and racism that made interracial unions very unlikely if not down right illegal. Even when white workers formed unions, racism meant that they excluded blacks, who could then be used as reserve labor by white captialists. A love of cheap labor, greater agrarian nature and legal (and extra legal) restrictions made organizing in the South very difficult, not that organizing in the North was any bed of roses.

The way I see it there are two competing polarities of thought. One states that the free market will create the best results for the most people with minimal interference. The other states that the free market has limits.

Obviously I'm closer to the second than the first. I don't think that unions are perfect or make sense in every situation. But a) unions b) torts and c) government regulation are three important bulwarks to the safety, health and welfare of American workers and citizens. From my perspective, it seems like Republicans in general and conservatives in particular are extremely opposed to all three. I don't think that's good for most people.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungleā€”as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.