only a couple of times, I really didn't meet him, more like in the same room with him. I remember him being very "by the book" very careful, a lot of guys had a lot of respect for him. Erie was as far as we would go. His son, I have heard, is a complete class act, I have never had the pleasure in meeting him, but if we was half of the man his father was, I'm sure he's a good kid