Murk, the KC chart looks better, I could use the same question that Black Jack asked me and that is whether their is a paper that indicates that Vince Civella is made, I am not evening finding anything which indicates he is an associate, the same can be said about Jerry Cammisano. Not trying to be argumenative here, just trying to figure out how you select one over the other, when there is no documentation for either. I provided you the FBI report that indicates that Pete Tamburello is a made member, yet you refuse to incude him, the same can be said about Carlo Cavellaro who in the Sutera Gambling trial of 1991 was identified as made. I linked the trial of Diglarmo from 1989, which identifies Nick Labruzzo as an associate, can you point me to the paperwork which identifies him as made. As far as has been determined the last making ceremony was in 1987, when William Cammisano made several guys, to include his son. Cammisano was the acting bos Tony Civella was locked up. You keep Nate Brancato on the chart when he has been retired for years and haslate stage alheimers, where is John Glorioso who was identifed as made in the Calia/Glorioso drug trials, you wont listen to me who was raised with them, but you will Black Jack who still calls Columbus park "little Italy" when the area is now Asian.