Ivy, I think part of the problem may be terminology differences, I am not trying to make KC the 6th NY family, the only point I have been trying to make is that they are bigger than some speculate, most of you guys put them at 10 members, I know there bigger than that, but I dont think there are more than 20, I think the number is around 17 or 18. I also know that there is structure there, it may not be the usual structure as they have in the big familys, but there is a boss, however after doing some more research in all honesty to prove you wrong LOL. I am coming to the conclusion that they do not operate under the normally rules, in that I dont think they make guys here anymore, I think basically you have a boss a second in command and then a few very trusted people to organize and arraing the activitys of the rest of the crew which I think is around 30 guys tops,and this would include what you guys were term as associates, I think however that they just operate like a street gang in that respect, you are just told you part of the gang, or you with us that kind of thing. The whole organization to include leadership and worker bees is probably in the 35 to 40 guy range. The other thing I am trying to convey to you and I do this with first hand knowlege is that they are growing in number with at least 15 guys I know of under the age of 30. Compared to their standing in the mid 90's where most of the family was over the age of 40. Now the 35 to 40 number may be a little high or a little low because its difficult to get a handle on which of the old timers are still operating.

I am not trying to be a dick, but I think you can understand that when you know something its difficult to be told you dont. I know you are used to dealing with some wack jobs, but I am not one of them. I have done time, but I also have 2 BS degrees, so I do know how to research, and I also work in an industry that puts me in contact with these types of people and I am sure that most of the guys on here telling you whats up are not from the neighborhood and did not grow up with a lot of the guys were discussing nor did they have a family member who was involved. I will tell you though my Uncle who is now in his mid 90's can give me a lot of insight on the 60's and 70's, but not on the current activities, but he did introduce me to a lot of people growing up from the old crews, some who are still active and like I have said I grew up with a lot of the newer guys.