Originally Posted by The Last Woltz
Originally Posted by JCrusher
Originally Posted by olivant
How to define win?

Michael won his criminal war with Roth, but lost his personal one. One could say that his desire to win the criminal war blinded him to the implications for his soul.

As III made clear, he realized too late that he was doomed to a life of regret
. Yeah but Roth certainly had a huge impact on that. Because of Roth Mikes two capos are gone along with his brother. Yes he still had Neri but his criminal family is not nearly as strong as it was in the beginning

Roth was a formidable adversary but let's not overstate the impact he had on Michael.

Was the Family really not as strong as it was in the beginning? Where's the evidence of that? Rocco's death?

We see in GFIII that Michael is richer, more powerful and more "legitimate" than ever. If the Family sustained any damage, it was temporary.

Obviously, Michael suffered great personal blows, but those were mostly self-inflicted.

It was his controlling, unsentimental personality that drove away Kay and Fredo. Roth's role was incidental
My take, for what it is worth!
I think you are being too harsh! on Michael There were many a times Michael showed his sentimental personality

Kay's gripe seems to have been that Michael had not delivered on his promise of making the Corleone family completely legitimate

Both Michael and Kay were delusional about “legitimacy” but Michael was at least trying!
If organized crime could wash their blood money clean, become “legitimate” let alone in five years RICO would probably be out of business!

There were some tender, loving moments – among others
  • Michael promised “We'll go to the city we'll see a show and we'll have dinner” when Kay was griping that Michael "had to see his father and his people" on his return from Moe Greene meeting
  • Michael reaches for and held Kay's hand at Anthony's party
  • Michael and Kay, when they were dancing, seemed quite loving
  • Michael and Kay spoke lovingly about the baby feeling like a boy
  • Michael sees the drawing Anthony left for him on his pillow, reaches over and strokes Kay's cheek

Perhaps if not for the Tahoe shooting - Roth's role - Kay may have continued living the life she had chosen

Fredo's gripe
Quote
I'm your older brother Mike and I was stepped over

Michael always took care of Fredo and treated Fredo no different to Vito or better
Quote
Michael: You're my brother Fredo you don't have to apologize to me [at Anthony's party]