Originally Posted by Turnbull
Originally Posted by JCrusher
Let’s say GF3 never happened do you think Roth did tremendous damage to Mike despite the fact that Mike technically won their war? Interested to hear your thoughts!!

Thoughtful post, Crusher smile And, an original question, at that!

Yes, absolutely agree. Michael "won" in the end by killing Roth. But the cost to Michael was tremendous. Michael had to realize that Roth was winning until nearly the end. Roth exploited his greed for Havana and blinded him to Roth's plot against him. Roth corrupted his brother and forced Michael to kill Fredo. The Tahoe attack, which Roth engineered, failed to kill Michael, but it was the last straw in Kay's crumbling relationship with Michael. He not only lost her, he lost his unborn son. The attack also put in place Pentangeli's betrayal of Michael, and Michael being subpoenaed to appear before the Senate subcommittee. Even though Pentangeli recanted his affidavit, damaging testimony against Michael went on the record--before a TV audience of millions.

That's the story of Michael's life--constantly winning battles, constantly losing wars.
My only debatable point in your sworn! list whilst “Roth corrupted his brother” Roth didn't “force Michael to kill Fredo”
ie: Michael still didn't have to kill Fredo

Michael could have easily continued the same arrangements of keeping Fredo under watch or similar until Mama Corleone's natural death He had the money and the resources Besides if Mama had lived longer.....

1. Nobody got Havana in the end Nobody
2. Roth didn't get Michael's $2 million

If “The Tahoe attack, which Roth engineered” had killed Michael, Roth undoubtedly would have won outright indeed Winner takes it all!

If Michael had died?
Originally Posted by Turnbull
All Roth would have to do would be to sit back and let them fight each other
Then Roth picks up [all] the Corleone business in the aftermath of total disarray, infighting, bloodshed and nobody figures out it was Roth all along

Roth would have continued to live like our average neighbour, harmless old man, his “carefully cultivated reputation” as a retired investor on a pension intact Nobody any the wiser