NEW YORK vs. CHICAGO?...

Now there’s a hypothetical for ya!

Although admittedly far-fetched, for the sake of discussion, during the peak of their respective power, if there had ever been an all-out “gangland-war” between the cities of New York and Chicago, who do you think would have come out on top as the victor?

Whats your opinion?

At the end of the day, who wins?

Organized crime “members and associates.” The FBI estimated that throughout the country the number of “core” associates was 5-times that of initiated members in any given Mafia family. *This number does not include secondary and peripheral associates. (Including other ethnicities, overall the FBI felt a 10-times figure as being representative.) So for every one member, there were 10 associates of varying importance.

TALE OF THE TAPE...

Genovese 500 + 2500
Gambino 500 + 2500
Bonanno 300 + 1500
Colombo 150 + 750
Lucchese 125 + 525
———————
1,575 + 7,775 = 9,350 estimated total man power


1950 Total Population Census (approximate)
Chicago: 3,500,000
New York: 8,000,000

Total Geographic Area:
City of Chicago: 231.7 miles
City of New York: 302.6 miles

Gross Domestic Product Revenue (2022 estimates)
City of Chicago: $630.13 billion
City of New York: $1.2 trillion
-

.....So, at the end of the day, who wins?

Lol pretty outlandish numbers for a ridiculous question

My first guess would be New York but Chicago seemed to always be battle tested. I’m sure TD can shed some great insight.

Well, in all fairness, NYC did have the numbers. Collectively, across the 5 families the inducted membership reportedly exceeded 1500. So there's that. With their core "associates" included, they had at least 10K. Thats a whopping number....Chicago never had anywhere near those numbers. So I guess its not a fair fight, so to speak. lol.

So, if you prefer, adjust the question accordingly. Match all of Chicago against, say, the Genovese, or Gambino Families (which were the largest.) Or match them any way that makes you feel more comfortable.

I laid out some established statistics of the cities like geography, populations, revenue, etc., to try and help with the question a bit.

Um there would be no war, because if you study history you know that NY and Chicago worked together over the years.

No shit! For that matter, ALL the families worked together, Rush.

LOL. It's called a "hypothetical" question, Rush....a hypothetical.

Rush...Here is the original post and question...

LMAO I was just saying but yes hypothetically I'd have to give the nod to New York during its peak years.

Well Jimmy, according to a wiretapped convo between Joe Colombo and another individual or individuals, Chicago allegedly had one (unknown) hitman (allegedly not a member) who in turn killed so many guys, almost the same number of members as the Colombo family, according to Colombo himself.

So according to the math of this ridiculous thread....1 or 2 Chicago hitmen vs Colombo family = no more Colombos

Make the same "math" regarding the rest of the NY families lol lol something like 15 Chicago hitmen vs all NY families = no more five families lol

As one poster already said, this is a ridiculous thread and just another bullshit imaginary idea lol

LMAO, fair enough.

Yes you must remember it really doesn't matter how many guys a family has, but instead the best killers.

Chicago had some great hitmen over the years that easily could have taken out all the important members of the five families.

Well, you certainly have a right to your own opinion. After all, this is a hypothetical "opinion" question, right? I, for one, don't agree with your assessment, but I'm not going to argue the point with you. (as I said, everyone sees things differently and has their own opinions...as it should be in life.)

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

Harry Aleman and Frank Schweihs could have easily done the job if called upon. By the time anyone caught on they would have been back in Chicago when the bodies were found.

All 10,000+ NYC guys, huh, Rush? LOL. It that what you're trying to say?

No no no. What I'm saying is that if they were called upon to go do a couple hits on some very important members they could've done the job and back in Chicago before the bodies were discovered.

No doubt about it. I'm quite sure of that. But by that same token, don't you think that each of the Five Families had the same....and more? And for that matter, almost to a borgata, don't you think that nearly all the families throughout the U.S (and Italy too for that matter, also had the same?) Of course they did. Detroit, New England, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Tampa, etc., etc., etc.

All of these families had solid contingents of deadly killers, both among their inducted members and associates.

Like you mentioned to me earlier, all you gotta do is read mob history.

They wouldve probably also make alliances like Chicago with the Genoveses, and Chicago with the Lukes, and possibly Chicago with Philly and Buffalo...and so bye bye 5 families since they were probably going to be down to 2 or 3 families max....during Prohibition Chicago was a official battlefield for several east coast families and in the end, guess who won the war?! Lol

Thanks TD!

As always, you're welcome bud

AND NOW, FOR THE UNVARNISHED FACTS AND TRUTH!


NEW YORK vs. CHICAGO

The question I posed here last week was strictly for fun. And, of course, it was a hypothetical one to spark some friendly conversation and gentlemanly debate between members of our forum.

It was an “opinion” piece designed for entertainment. But at the end of the day, there is still the truth of it all which is based on established historical facts, hard numbers, and recognized statistics that come into play here.

That said, here are the unvarnished facts and naked truth about if an all-out “gangland-war” had ever actually taken place between these two formidable underworld entities. And, unfortunately for Chicago, there is simply no comparison between the two cities or Families whatsoever.

The reality is that New York City has always been, currently still is, and will continue to be, the very epicenter of underworld power and the headquarters of the Mafia in America. Not to mention the fact that New York City was (and is) the key linchpin and main lifeline traveling back to their original birthplace of Sicily and Southern Italy.

The overwhelming majority of Italians who ever immigrated to the United States came through New York’s Ellis Island. Most of these immigrants settled into the five boroughs or over the bridge into northern New Jersey where they settled in and made their homes. Later, some of them chose to relocate to other cities such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc., etc., etc.

New York IS the “seat of power” for all Cosa Nostra in the United States. This is as clear as day! This “truth” has been cemented in history time and time again, and by the very fact that “The Commission” has always been headquartered in NYC. This governing body was, and still is, responsible for setting policy and supervising the bosses and hierarchies and activities of ALL the Cosa Nostra networks throughout the U.S….the City of Chicago included.

In other words, The NY Commission set the rules of the road in place and enforced those rules. And, although, “technically” speaking, all family bosses are created equal, New York was always a little more equal. A “first among equals,” if you will….These are non-negotiable facts.

Next, the overwhelming and massive amount of manpower (and subsequently, firepower) available to them among their own soldiers and associates within the Tristate area alone, not to mention the fact that all the other families in the country listen to them because of their pervasive influence and acknowledged final say over everybody else, (which once amounted to 20+ other crime families sprinkled throughout the country) more than speaks for itself.

Remember too, that the Chicago “Family” was but an original seedling of New York, as was the overwhelming majority of other borgatas created all across the United States.

Chicago’s very formation was first established and long governed by New York City natives. And as powerful as they later became, they were still only one “medium-sized” borgata against all the “Five Families” (and for that matter, every other “Family” all across the country combined.)

Why is that? Because — at the end of the day — everybody listened, and still listens, to New York. (That is, of course, whatever families are still in existence today.)

PS: Still need more proof? Then consider this…

As of today, May, 2024 the total “inducted” membership of the so-called Chicago “Outfit” is estimated to encompass no more than several dozen men (if that)….which is a paltry number, to say the least.

While collectively, the formal “inducted” membership of New York City’s Five Families is still estimated at approximately 800 to 1000 core members….not to mention, literally, thousands more NY, NJ, CT-based crew associates.

PS: Lastly, please don’t hate the messenger, ok? Because this is NOT opinion. These ARE the facts!

Yours Truly.…”The Other Guy”