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May 27th, 2012
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Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970202
04/27/19 08:26 AM
04/27/19 08:26 AM
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Ciment Offline
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Originally Posted by antimafia
Yet another theory emerges as to why Musitano was shot.

The mobster, the fraudster and the $110-million-a-month construction business: The story of a Hamilton company’s alleged scam

A company with ties to a local mobster and convicted fraudster is alleged to have perpetrated a multimillion-dollar scam that has resulted in tattered lives and lawsuits across the Hamilton area


Link:

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...ry-of-a-hamilton-company-s-alleged-scam/

Web Archive link in case you hit a paywall:

Web Archive link


There will be many theories, the Musitano's seemed to have made many of enemies over the years.

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970203
04/27/19 08:34 AM
04/27/19 08:34 AM
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Ciment Offline
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Originally Posted by antimafia
Originally Posted by Ciment
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...alked-about-getting-rid-of-pat-musitano/

Here's how a wiretap conversation talked about getting rid of Pat Musitano


Excerpt:

In the September 2017 recorded conversation, Dom Violi says the Musitanos were supporting the Cuntreras, who at times are referred to as the "coffee guys." The Cuntrera-Caruana Mafia family is known in the Woodbridge and Toronto areas. The home of Giuseppe Cuntrera, referred to in the court documents as "Big Joe," was targeted with gunshots and fire in the summer of 2017.

Pat and Ang Musitano are referred to in an earlier recorded conversation with the police agent, which is also included in the court file, from Jan. 6, 2016 — more than a year before Angelo's murder. In that conversation, Joe Violi talks about a plan he'd heard about from a hit man to target two people, one in Hamilton and one in Toronto.

Violi tells the police agent he thought the Musitanos and the Cuntreras were behind those plans. But it appears those murders, if there was ever any truth to the plans, never happened.


What a mindf*ck this all is, especially because Business or Blood argued that the Siderno Group and Caruana-Cuntrera family were in cahoots, the latter in effect therefore no longer beholden to the Rizzutos.


I agree mindf*ck is a good characterization........LOL

But the above mentioned theory (Musitano/Cuntrera) may explain why the Cuntrera's were being targeted. It kind of makes sense for now. Given the fact that some of the Luppino daughters married members of a prominent Ndrangheta family and Violi promotion to underboss shows that there may have been a strategic alliance between NY, Violi/Luppino & Ndrangheta to purge remnants of the Rizzuto holdings in Ontario.

Last edited by Ciment; 04/27/19 09:19 AM.
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970205
04/27/19 09:35 AM
04/27/19 09:35 AM
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antimafia Offline OP
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These are the victims of the GTA underworld power struggle

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/ontario-mob-1.5112120

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970291
04/28/19 03:19 PM
04/28/19 03:19 PM
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Posts: 3,553
Sonny_Black Offline
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Any updates on his status? If he survives and recovers I think there will be a lot of bloodshed.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970303
04/28/19 04:29 PM
04/28/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,126
Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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Alabama
Anti,

Here is a tweet from that same twitter feed you linked earlier. This is VERY interesting:


Joclyn
‏@Joclyn36115822
Apr 25
Replying to @PeelPoliceMedia

Not a mob hit bad business related to Havana Group supplies @hollyrowe @Kellyrowe @crystallnorton @ waterdowngardens @ zacheverett @lindaeverett

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970304
04/28/19 04:31 PM
04/28/19 04:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,126
Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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Alabama
And they posted that as soon as the supposed hit happened, I'm not even sure they knew it was Pat right away and he/she has already posted that tweet in reply. Very interesting and could other heads roll?

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970310
04/28/19 05:45 PM
04/28/19 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by antimafia
Originally Posted by Hollander
Originally Posted by m2w
violi said morena that 'they' wanted musitano dead, maybe the siderno group? there is a war between caruana-cuntrera and the siderno group?


Problem with that is it's labelled the "Siderno Group" because its members primarily came from the town of Siderno, but it doesn't have a structure it's just a group of families. The structure are the locali.


There is a strong argument to be made that the Greater Toronto Area Siderno Group is still one locale, just as it was in the 1960s. In 2010, at 43 inducted members, there appeared to be fewer members than in the 1970s, when Mike Racco was the undisputed leader of the Siderno Group in Toronto and had probably come the closest any mafIoso has ever come to being the godfather of Toronto.


Thanks and does La Provincia control them or a single boss?

Last edited by Hollander; 04/28/19 05:45 PM.

"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970357
04/29/19 05:38 AM
04/29/19 05:38 AM
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Posts: 5,861
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Hollander Offline
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Posts: 5,861


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970358
04/29/19 06:06 AM
04/29/19 06:06 AM
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During a March 2018 trial of 'Ndrangheta members in the Greater Toronto Area in Canada, an agreed Statement of Fact indicated that "the Locali [local cells] outside of Calabria replicate the structure from Calabria, and are connected to their mother-Locali in Calabria. The authority to start Locali outside Calabria comes from the governing bodies of the organization in Calabria. The Locali outside of Calabria are part of the same 'Ndrangheta organization as in Calabria, and maintain close relationships with the Locali where its members come from." The group's activities in the Greater Toronto Area were controlled by a group known as the 'Camera Di Controllo' (also known as La Provincia, according to the statement) which "makes all of the final decisions", according to the witness' testimony


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970362
04/29/19 10:21 AM
04/29/19 10:21 AM
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The informant also indicated that there had to be at least 50 members per locale.

Other sources report that there are 9 locale in Ontario. Some even go as far as reporting that there may be one locale in Montreal.

Last edited by Ciment; 04/29/19 10:22 AM.
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970377
04/29/19 01:23 PM
04/29/19 01:23 PM
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Any one know musitanos status? Is he still alive? And who is left of his crime family? Does he have enough man power to start sending retaliatory hits?

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970382
04/29/19 01:55 PM
04/29/19 01:55 PM
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RollinBones Offline
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who's the last guy based out of canada to flip?

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970390
04/29/19 02:58 PM
04/29/19 02:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,787
Pecoraro Cantu
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Carmine Guido.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970392
04/29/19 03:29 PM
04/29/19 03:29 PM
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antimafia Offline OP
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Police sting revealed plans for gangland hits on Musitano family

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/musitano-court-documents-1.5115426

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: dixiemafia] #970393
04/29/19 04:21 PM
04/29/19 04:21 PM
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antimafia Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dixiemafia
Anti,

Here is a tweet from that same twitter feed you linked earlier. This is VERY interesting:


Joclyn
‏@Joclyn36115822
Apr 25
Replying to @PeelPoliceMedia

Not a mob hit bad business related to Havana Group supplies @hollyrowe @Kellyrowe @crystallnorton @ waterdowngardens @ zacheverett @lindaeverett


Originally Posted by dixiemafia
And they posted that as soon as the supposed hit happened, I'm not even sure they knew it was Pat right away and he/she has already posted that tweet in reply. Very interesting and could other heads roll?


This Twitter user posted her first tweet at 1:30 pm on Thursday, April 25. Pat Musitano was found shot and wounded shortly after 7:00 am that day (the call came in at 7:03 am). Media reports from around 9:50 am that day, such as from CHCH News in Hamilton, were already mentioning Musitano's name. (The reason the Peel Regional Police never confirmed his name is that it was not a homicide.)

Nevertheless, this person on Twitter does seem to have some intimate knowledge about the lawsuit. She has continued to tweet images mostly from legal documents, to wit:

https://twitter.com/Joclyn36115822/status/1121466497031970816

https://twitter.com/Joclyn36115822/status/1121755446266814464

https://twitter.com/Joclyn36115822/status/1122871336794247168

https://twitter.com/Joclyn36115822/status/1122871415328391168

I suspect that she or someone she knows has attended the legal proceedings.

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970413
04/29/19 11:19 PM
04/29/19 11:19 PM
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Posts: 1,502
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Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970418
04/30/19 03:24 AM
04/30/19 03:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,787
Pecoraro Cantu
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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I believe Giuseppe Avignone is also marked and is the last major member in the Musitano crime family.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970423
04/30/19 08:21 AM
04/30/19 08:21 AM
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antimafia Offline OP
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A Canadian murder. 'Buffalo's crime family.' Is the Mafia still around?

https://buffalonews.com/2019/04/30/in-canada-the-buffalo-mob-is-viewed-as-alive-and-well/

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: Ciment] #970424
04/30/19 09:13 AM
04/30/19 09:13 AM
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Posts: 1,502
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antimafia Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ciment
The informant also indicated that there had to be at least 50 members per locale.

Other sources report that there are 9 locale in Ontario. Some even go as far as reporting that there may be one locale in Montreal.


Ciment,

There is a serious definitional problem with respect to the term locale used to denote a unit of the 'ndrangheta operating outside Italy.

Various authorities in Italy -- individuals who work in government, law enforcement, and justice -- have unfortunately not realized that, in interviews and public statements, they 1) offer different assessments of the number of locali in Canada (Ontario specifically) and 2) hold different views about what constitutes a locale, whether we are talking about the number of members or the number of 'ndrine operating in a territory. These authorities really should coordinate what they say in public and in writing.

By one definition, the Greater Toronto Area Siderno Group in 2010 didn't even constitute a locale because, per phase 1 of the Il Crimine investigation, the crime group had only 43 inducted members.

Give me a day or so, and I'll cite the sources I've collected over the years to show the discrepancies. To start, below is a link to a reprint of an interview with Michele Prestipino, one-time chief prosecutor for Reggio Calabria, that indicates Toronto has one locale and Thunder Bay (a much, much smaller city than Toronto) also has one locale. I don't agree with this equivalence at all, but the confusion arises from the aforementioned definitional problem.

http://www.pinomasciari.it/?p=11376

This older interview also offers a different take on who was actually in charge of the Siderno Group in the GTA back in 2011 despite the fact that the 2010 Il Crimine investigation named seven leaders who were considered to be on the camera di controllo, or commissione.

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #970427
04/30/19 10:32 AM
04/30/19 10:32 AM
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Mooney Offline
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Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
I believe Giuseppe Avignone is also marked and is the last major member in the Musitano crime family.



Giuseppe Avignone is related to the Musitano family right? I thought I read somewhere that he is a nephew of Anthony and Dominc. I am assuming Anthony and Dominic had a sister maybe? That's her kid? Think Giuseppe goes by the name Pino.

Last edited by Mooney; 04/30/19 11:18 AM.

"Thank God for the American Jury System" - Nicky Scarfo
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970428
04/30/19 11:29 AM
04/30/19 11:29 AM
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Yes him and Pasquale are cousins. The Avignones are also a 'ndrina, originally from Taurianova ( Reggio Calabria).


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: Hollander] #970435
04/30/19 02:06 PM
04/30/19 02:06 PM
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Posts: 1,502
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antimafia Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Yes him and Pasquale are cousins. The Avignones are also a 'ndrina, originally from Taurianova ( Reggio Calabria).


And how exactly do you know that brothers Pat, Angelo, and Dominic Jr., as well as sister Carmelina, are Pino Avignone's first cousins?

This is how Dominic Musitano Sr.'s newspaper obituary reads near the beginning: "Dear father and father-in-law of Pino and Anna Avignone...." Link to my Evernote item is below, and the item has a PDF of the newspaper obituary.

Dominic Musitano Sr.'s newspaper obituary

Usually, Avignone has been variously described in books and newspaper articles as the adopted brother of Pat, Angelo, Dominic Jr., and Carmelina or as a stepbrother. Stephen Schneider, who wrote Iced: The Story of Organized Crime in Canada, went with the available conflicting information that was out there and decided that Avignone was Dominic Sr.'s nephew. Why does the obituary list Avignone as a surviving family member before the four aforementioned sons and daughter of Dominic Sr. and Carmelina Alampi? The obituary does not make reference to Pino as a stepson.

Looking up surnames of 'ndrangheta members in Italy isn't going to help you figure out a puzzle that only people close to the Musitanos here in Ontario know the answer to; I certainly have no idea what the true relationship is between Avignone and the Musitanos.

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970436
04/30/19 02:24 PM
04/30/19 02:24 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Anti, in the Sixth Family they said Pat and his cousin, Giuseppe “Pino” Avignone, had a lengthy meeting with Vito Rizzuto in Woodbridge in '97.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970437
04/30/19 02:33 PM
04/30/19 02:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 37
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DanD Offline
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From Today's Buffalo News:

A Canadian murder. 'Buffalo's crime family.' Is the Mafia still around?

https://buffalonews.com/2019/04/30/in-canada-the-buffalo-mob-is-viewed-as-alive-and-well/

Lots of info (some we've already read) from Edwards, Manning and Todaro's lawyer


Last edited by DanD; 04/30/19 02:34 PM.
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970453
04/30/19 04:39 PM
04/30/19 04:39 PM
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Posts: 8,518
C
Ciment Offline
Ciment  Offline
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Posts: 8,518
Originally Posted by antimafia
Originally Posted by Ciment
The informant also indicated that there had to be at least 50 members per locale.

Other sources report that there are 9 locale in Ontario. Some even go as far as reporting that there may be one locale in Montreal.


Ciment,

There is a serious definitional problem with respect to the term locale used to denote a unit of the 'ndrangheta operating outside Italy.

Various authorities in Italy -- individuals who work in government, law enforcement, and justice -- have unfortunately not realized that, in interviews and public statements, they 1) offer different assessments of the number of locali in Canada (Ontario specifically) and 2) hold different views about what constitutes a locale, whether we are talking about the number of members or the number of 'ndrine operating in a territory. These authorities really should coordinate what they say in public and in writing.

By one definition, the Greater Toronto Area Siderno Group in 2010 didn't even constitute a locale because, per phase 1 of the Il Crimine investigation, the crime group had only 43 inducted members.

Give me a day or so, and I'll cite the sources I've collected over the years to show the discrepancies. To start, below is a link to a reprint of an interview with Michele Prestipino, one-time chief prosecutor for Reggio Calabria, that indicates Toronto has one locale and Thunder Bay (a much, much smaller city than Toronto) also has one locale. I don't agree with this equivalence at all, but the confusion arises from the aforementioned definitional problem.

http://www.pinomasciari.it/?p=11376

This older interview also offers a different take on who was actually in charge of the Siderno Group in the GTA back in 2011 despite the fact that the 2010 Il Crimine investigation named seven leaders who were considered to be on the camera di controllo, or commissione.


I see what you mean. The following Italian article refers to Toronto as having a locale and same for Thunder Bay. It gets to be confusing.

http://www.strill.it/citta/reggio/2...nternazionale-41-orinanze-di-custodia-2/

Michele Prestipino also says that Carmine Verduci, resident in the York Region, considered the head of the "local" in Toronto.

Last edited by Ciment; 04/30/19 10:11 PM.
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: Hollander] #970454
04/30/19 05:30 PM
04/30/19 05:30 PM
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Posts: 1,502
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antimafia Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Anti, in the Sixth Family they said Pat and his cousin, Giuseppe “Pino” Avignone, had a lengthy meeting with Vito Rizzuto in Woodbridge in '97.


Well, this relationship keeps being repeated in books and articles. I wish a more definitive account would come out.

Even an article published today mentions that Avignone is the nephew of brothers Dominic Musitano Sr. and Tony Musitano.

Drug trafficking: How the RCMP busted a Hamilton pharmacy

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9309442-drug-trafficking-how-the-rcmp-busted-a-hamilton-pharmacy

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970456
04/30/19 05:34 PM
04/30/19 05:34 PM
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https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...ngs-of-ndrangheta-organized-crime-group/

Antimafia,

This article defines cells as locale .

Toronto court hears testimony on inner workings of ‘Ndrangheta organized crime group
For the past week, Carmine Guido has testified in detail that he was deeply involved in fraud, drug trafficking and enforcement in a local ‘Ndrangheta cell under Giuseppe (Pino) Ursino, 64, of Bradford.

In one intercepted conversation, Ursino told Guido: "Money's not everything."

The jury heard from Guido and Piccoli's report that there are two basic grades of membership: major and minor.

Piccoli said different ranks of the 'Ndrangheta range from "picciotto" at the low end of "The Societara Minore," or lower level group, to "Mammasantissima" and "Cavalairi di Cristo" in the "Societa Maggiore," or higher level group.

Cells are called "locali" or "locale" and must have at least 50 members, Piccoli said


It also states:

"Was he (Verduci) a member of 'Ndrangheta?," Streeter asked.

"Yes," Guido replied, adding that Verduci had been on the local board of control.


The Italian article refers Verduci as the Head of the locale and Guido the informant refers to him as a member of the local board control.

Last edited by Ciment; 04/30/19 05:41 PM.
Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970457
04/30/19 06:07 PM
04/30/19 06:07 PM
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Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970458
04/30/19 06:14 PM
04/30/19 06:14 PM
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https://www.thespec.com/news-story/9309442-drug-trafficking-how-the-rcmp-busted-a-hamilton-pharmacy/

Drug trafficking: How the RCMP busted a Hamilton pharmacy
Allegations involve cheque scams, six-figure wire transfers, a $600,000 property in the Bahamas and a player with ties to the Hamilton mafia

Re: Pat Musitano shot west of Toronto [Re: antimafia] #970466
04/30/19 07:45 PM
04/30/19 07:45 PM
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Posts: 772
England, London
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England, London
These Canadians are insane. LE there need help! The amount of murders is crazy. In the future they’ll be looking back at this time period as a historic mafia war

Last edited by streetbossliborio; 04/30/19 07:47 PM.
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