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What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
#951007
08/22/18 10:39 AM
08/22/18 10:39 AM
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Posts: 250
night_timer
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So, we all know about the LCN influence in NYC and Las Vegas, but what was the overall level of power of LCN in LA?
And how does the LCN influence compare today in NYC, after Giuliani?
Was the LCN screwed even before Giuliani - and after 911 - gave rise to greater police powers on every street corner?
(Not wanting to say no to police vigilance on the streets of NYC, just asking a question.... )
Last edited by night_timer; 08/22/18 10:41 AM.
"It was all crap, right up to the moment he died" - an investigator's opinion - and epitaph - of John Holmes (Johnny Wadd)
"Drunk words are sober thoughts" - Anon.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#951027
08/22/18 02:18 PM
08/22/18 02:18 PM
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Nitro
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The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA. i'm sure that's had nothing do with it. I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. OC don't need closed neighborhood or areas. So i don't know why LCN not exist anymore. Los Angels always had a different underworld. Maybe it had do with Sociocultural /Suburban phenomenons. But another problem what we really know about organzed crime in LA ? In fact not much.
Last edited by Nitro; 08/22/18 02:27 PM.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: Nitro]
#951028
08/22/18 02:32 PM
08/22/18 02:32 PM
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MeyerLansky
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The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA. i'm sure that's had nothing do with it. I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. OC don't need closed neighborhood or areas. So i don't know why LCN not exist anymore. Los Angels always had a different underworld. Maybe it had do with Sociocultural /Suburban phenomenons. But another problem what we really know about organzed crime in LA ? In fact not much. True. who knows maybe there is â€some mob activity which we didn't heard off
Last edited by MeyerLansky; 08/22/18 02:32 PM.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: Nitro]
#951043
08/22/18 04:32 PM
08/22/18 04:32 PM
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Posts: 305
Stubbs
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The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA. i'm sure that's had nothing do with it. I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. OC don't need closed neighborhood or areas. So i don't know why LCN not exist anymore. Los Angels always had a different underworld. Maybe it had do with Sociocultural /Suburban phenomenons. But another problem what we really know about organzed crime in LA ? In fact not much. Most of the families not on the East Coast were small time and died out due to multille factors, mostly because of how the Italians weren’t really close knit after a few generations after immigrating. In NYC, you not only have the neighborhoods but people didn’t really inter-marry between other groups as much, so you’re far more likely to have someone who is 50 or 100% Italian even though they’re fourth or fifth generation. People in the rest of the country, like Los Angeles, Louisiana, or here in Texas tended to inter-marry a lot more. They also moved to different areas and even though they’re Italian, it’s in name only. Most of them are basically completely whitebread WASPs and don’t really have any concept of the old country, other than the Olive Garden and what they see on TV.
Last edited by Stubbs; 08/22/18 04:33 PM.
"It wasn't very good parsley to begin with, and then the cat went and peed on it." -Sicilian proverb
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: night_timer]
#951046
08/22/18 04:43 PM
08/22/18 04:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
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TheKillingJoke
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There is definitely some truth to what Nitro says; there just isn't really much known about organized crime in California in general. We know about the gang landscape over there. There's the African American street gangs and prison gangs (Bloods, Crips, BGF...), Mexican prison gangs and street gangs (La Eme, Nuestra Familia...), prison gangs and outlaw motorcycle gangs for good ole boy white criminals (Aryan Brotherhood, Hells Angels...). There's some Triad gang activity in the Chinatowns. There has been a Yakuza presence in the Japanese communities, a Korean gang presence in the Korean communities and a Vietnamese gang presence in the Vietnamese communities. There's documented Israeli mob activity in LA as well as Chaldean mob activity in San Diego. Eastern European OC is mostly confined to Armenian gang activity in the Armenian communities of LA.
That's it basically. I don't any other Southeast Asian or Polynesian gang can make a claim for the "organized crime" title. And even then remains the question if you consider prison gang, outlaw motorcycle gang as well as smaller ethnic mob activity organized crime the same way and on the same level you consider the American Mafia on the East Coast to be organized crime.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: sbhc]
#951068
08/22/18 09:31 PM
08/22/18 09:31 PM
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BillyBrizzi
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Dead as a doornail I'd imagine.
There was never a big family there in the first place. Other familes would do business in LA without involving them or asking permission. Yep, according to Michael Franzese you never had to check in with anyone when you went to Los Angeles, the way you had to do in cities like Philly, Miami and even Cleveland. He said that within LCN they weren't taken seriously at all, they called them the Micky Mouse Mafia..
Last edited by BillyBrizzi; 08/22/18 09:32 PM.
FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: night_timer]
#951083
08/23/18 01:19 AM
08/23/18 01:19 AM
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jace
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In Fratiano's book and interviews So, we all know about the LCN influence in NYC and Las Vegas, but what was the overall level of power of LCN in LA?
And how does the LCN influence compare today in NYC, after Giuliani?
Was the LCN screwed even before Giuliani - and after 911 - gave rise to greater police powers on every street corner?
(Not wanting to say no to police vigilance on the streets of NYC, just asking a question.... ) They were in trouble way before Giuliani. I think LA is dead and New York is still active, but with low quality members compared to the older generation, I have to read Frattiano's book and see what he says about the state of LA when he was in it.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#951091
08/23/18 05:11 AM
08/23/18 05:11 AM
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NickyfromTampa
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The LA family was disbanded in the 1980s due the fact that there are no italian communities in LA.For sure some NY wiseguy like James Isgro of gambino or dominick montemarano of colombos made some $$$ but the gangs rules on LA. Spot on. Kenny Gallo worked with the LA mob in the early-to-mid 1990s but pretty much described it as nothing more than old remnants of a bygone era. I'd say that there was pretty much nothing left in any structural capacity by the turn of the century.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#951093
08/23/18 05:55 AM
08/23/18 05:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,233 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Dead as a doornail I'd imagine.
There was never a big family there in the first place. Other familes would do business in LA without involving them or asking permission. Yep, according to Michael Franzese you never had to check in with anyone when you went to Los Angeles, the way you had to do in cities like Philly, Miami and even Cleveland. He said that within LCN they weren't taken seriously at all, they called them the Micky Mouse Mafia.. Yes,the Dragna family was called the Mickey Mouse Mafia and at it peak in the 1950s had 50 or few more made men some of them come from the east coast families. The Dragna men was so weak that Mickey Cohen was the real boss of LA;and was so less respected that Joe Bonanno tried to made his son Bill as LA family boss. In California there was italian communities that was more integrated and so the mob family in L.A.,San Francisco and San Jose was small and ehen the old wiseguy died there was nobody for replace them.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: Nitro]
#951114
08/23/18 02:44 PM
08/23/18 02:44 PM
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OakAsFan
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I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. There are no Italian communities in California. Some older people think there are, and try to preserve their once Italian dominated areas by having clubs and organizing events or dinners with like 50 or so people. But as far as the type of Italian neighborhoods you have on the east coast? The Latino neighborhoods in California probably have more of a resemblance, just by way of large families, working class, devout Catholicism, and similarities between the Spanish and Italian languages. I grew up with a lot of Italians who blended in with Chicano culture. Most of the traditional Italian neighborhoods in CA are now Latino, or gentrified. North Beach in SF, the old Lanza turf, is a total rich area now. All that's left of its Italian past is the lamp posts painted in the Italian flag colors, and a few pizzerias along Columbus. It's Italian like the Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland are real pirates.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: sbhc]
#951115
08/23/18 03:13 PM
08/23/18 03:13 PM
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OakAsFan
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There was never a big family there in the first place. Other familes would do business in LA without involving them or asking permission. The early 1930s was probably the peak of Jack Dragna's control over LA. Dragna was given a Commission seat. John Roselli took him to NY and vouched for him and his family to be recognized. But yeah, once Siegel moved west, New York clearly disregarded Dragna and gave Siegel the run of the place. After Siegel died, Tommy Lucchese, who was Dragna's in-law, backed Dragna over Mickey Cohen. This is probably why so many Italians in Cohen's crew started switching to the Dragnas. The writing was on the wall. Cohen was one tenacious bastard, though. He took over all of Siegel's gambling rackets, didn't give the Dragnas a dime, and survived several attempts on his life. Frattiano made the Dragna family seem like Murder Inc. in his book. Despite his proclamations of LA's power during his time, there just isn't a lot of court records or testimony from other turncoats to back it up. I don't believe his stories about pushing Moe Sedway around or Siegel speaking with him as equals for one second. Other than keeping up appearances with Dragna, Siegel wouldn't have wasted one second with Italians west of Chicago. When the Milanos of Cleveland took over LA in the 80s they were still making some moves. A lot of guys in the LA family at that time were former Vegas guys who retreated to SoCal after the corporations bought the old Teamster casinos, and just about reaching retirement age. That was probably the last hurrah of the LA family. As others have said, New York guys operate in LA on their own now.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: OakAsFan]
#951123
08/23/18 04:02 PM
08/23/18 04:02 PM
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Nitro
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I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. There are no Italian communities in California. Dragna/Milano's structure are gone thats obviously. " "There are no Italian communities " does not explain why they stop recruited new members. Again the mafia don't need communities. It's a simplification to think mafia only existed in italian neighberhood. So may guess is young criminals don't need a fix structure to make money. Culturel mixed groups are more powerfull. But again we don't know much about OC in Cali.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: m2w]
#951131
08/23/18 04:49 PM
08/23/18 04:49 PM
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OakAsFan
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another reason is that most of italian immigrants in california came from northern regions This I believe. Southern Italians in California have more in common with Latinos than they do with the bourgeois Italians that claim a generational identity to the region.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: Nitro]
#951132
08/23/18 05:25 PM
08/23/18 05:25 PM
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NickyfromTampa
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I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. There are no Italian communities in California. Dragna/Milano's structure are gone thats obviously. " "There are no Italian communities " does not explain why they stop recruited new members. Again the mafia don't need communities. It's a simplification to think mafia only existed in italian neighberhood. So may guess is young criminals don't need a fix structure to make money. Culturel mixed groups are more powerfull. But again we don't know much about OC in Cali. Give me a Mafia family that operated in areas with no Italian communities or presence.
Last edited by NickyfromTampa; 08/23/18 05:25 PM.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: night_timer]
#951139
08/23/18 09:04 PM
08/23/18 09:04 PM
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SoCalGangs
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I’m still around and reading the forum. Some of the news stories I’ve been following have been already been posted by Ciment in that Mexican Cartel thread, but those news updates should be posted under a separate thread since the Mexican Mafia isn’t part of the Mexican Drug cartels.
Last edited by SoCalGangs; 08/23/18 09:05 PM.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: NickyfromTampa]
#951157
08/24/18 06:27 AM
08/24/18 06:27 AM
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Nitro
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I know places were Mafia cell exist with not more than 50 Italians. Well in California live 1,500,000 so more than enough. There are no Italian communities in California. Dragna/Milano's structure are gone thats obviously. " "There are no Italian communities " does not explain why they stop recruited new members. Again the mafia don't need communities. It's a simplification to think mafia only existed in italian neighberhood. So may guess is young criminals don't need a fix structure to make money. Culturel mixed groups are more powerfull. But again we don't know much about OC in Cali. Give me a Mafia family that operated in areas with no Italian communities or presence. I speak about communities places like "Little Italy". Not about presence. Of course you need italians for mafia activity. Las Vegas from the beginning... Gambling operartion in 60's,70's,80's was much bigger as traditional "communities". (Dixie, Midwest) ...Cuba, Bahmas, link to European groups. ) Ndrangheta - Frauenfels, Thurgau CH. Maybe only 5 % .... (I believe Cali ~7 or 8 %) Cosa Nostra / Ndrangheta activity in Allgäu, Germany they are villages. Sometimes you have only a pizzeria. One or two italian families. East Germany cities like Erfurt. There never exist a closed neighborhood but a strong mafia activity. CN activity in Africa. Wholesale drug trading had nothing to do with communities. Nightclub / Redlight activiets had mostly nothing to do with. White Dollar crime ... another example we know a lot examples for isreali OC networks in Cali. But only 0,1 % Cali population are Isreali-American.
Last edited by Nitro; 08/24/18 06:32 AM.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: night_timer]
#951158
08/24/18 06:53 AM
08/24/18 06:53 AM
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NickyfromTampa
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I speak about communities places like "Little Italy". Not about presence. Of course you need italians for mafia activity.
Las Vegas from the beginning...
Gambling operartion in 60's,70's,80's was much bigger as traditional "communities". (Dixie, Midwest) ...Cuba, Bahmas, link to European groups. )
Ndrangheta - Frauenfels, Thurgau CH. Maybe only 5 % .... (I believe Cali ~7 or 8 %)
Cosa Nostra / Ndrangheta activity in Allgäu, Germany they are villages. Sometimes you have only a pizzeria. One or two italian families.
East Germany cities like Erfurt. There never exist a closed neighborhood but a strong mafia activity.
CN activity in Africa.
Wholesale drug trading had nothing to do with communities. Nightclub / Redlight activiets had mostly nothing to do with. White Dollar crime ...
another example we know a lot examples for isreali OC networks in Cali. But only 0,1 % Cali population are Isreali-American.
My point is about whether a Mafia family could viably exist and sustain itself in an area with little to no Italian communities. An American Mafia family, to be specific, since groups in Italy are a whole different discussion entirely. I'm not talking about the mob having influence in Vegas or pre-Castro Cuba, since we all no there was no "Las Vegas crime family" or "Cuba crime family."
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: night_timer]
#951162
08/24/18 07:15 AM
08/24/18 07:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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furio_from_naples
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https://www.laweekly.com/restaurant...the-patriarch-of-eastside-market-2382445Why Doesn't Los Angeles Have a Little Italy? Actually, Los Angeles did have a Little Italy for over a century. It started in the 1800's on Olvera Street and North Main, when Los Angeles was a Mexican puebla. By the turn of the 20th century, Los Angeles's Little Italy had expanded into present-day Chinatown and eventually to Lincoln Heights and the foothills of Elysian Park. Johnny Angiuli, owner of Eastside Market Italian Deli, can wax nostalgic for hours about the hillside neighborhood, just above Chinatown where his deli is located, that was still a thriving Italian enclave when he immigrated here in 1956 from Adelphia, Italy, at the age of twelve. The market portion of Eastside Market is long gone. As upwardly mobile Italians moved out of Little Italy, the demand for Italian and Mediterranean produce waned. By the time Johnny Angiuli purchased the market in 1974 from Sam Pontrelli and George Laricchia, after having worked there for fifteen years, he knew times were changing. He converted the market section of the store into a dining room and introduced hot foods to the deli. Angiuli has seen the neighborhood turnover many times from good to bad to good again. The 1970s, in particular, was a lean decade, when the neighborhood was at a crossroads with an ever-diminishing and aging Italian population and influxes of decidedly non-Mediterranean residents.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: NickyfromTampa]
#951181
08/24/18 12:00 PM
08/24/18 12:00 PM
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Nitro
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@Nicky from Tempa By the way Frauenfels Ndrina is completely independent.
I see your point. So i give you right if we talk about a new family. But American Mafia exist there. So the need only new Blood and i think there are more then enough. So 5 or 10 guys (without arrest) are more than enough. If it necessary got to New York and take some guys from there. Mafia is a elite thing not a mass organization. But they die out. And again it is not enough to say " of course they had no neighborhood.
Another thing is American Mafia can change the rules. So they don't need to ask Palermo. In fact LA don't need ask New York for new rules about new members. They can give mixed blood made member status or work with non-italians( like Chicago). So my guess is they hadn't enough business on the run. Not enough White dollar connection. So young guys don't need them. After a while they lost muscles and cannot protect his business and members get older. So they disappear. (exception is Tommy Gambino this guy is a mystery for me).
Another scenario is LA mafia never (or only Dragna) exist as a independent group and chicago and Cleveland was not interested to the refresh the group in the late 90's. So only Gambino with his New York connection "survive".
For SF i think is the other way around. They was verry successful and lost the interest in street/crime stuff.
Last edited by Nitro; 08/24/18 01:17 PM.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#951183
08/24/18 12:33 PM
08/24/18 12:33 PM
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OakAsFan
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https://www.laweekly.com/restaurant...the-patriarch-of-eastside-market-2382445Why Doesn't Los Angeles Have a Little Italy? Actually, Los Angeles did have a Little Italy for over a century. It started in the 1800's on Olvera Street and North Main, when Los Angeles was a Mexican puebla. By the turn of the 20th century, Los Angeles's Little Italy had expanded into present-day Chinatown and eventually to Lincoln Heights and the foothills of Elysian Park. Johnny Angiuli, owner of Eastside Market Italian Deli, can wax nostalgic for hours about the hillside neighborhood, just above Chinatown where his deli is located, that was still a thriving Italian enclave when he immigrated here in 1956 from Adelphia, Italy, at the age of twelve. The market portion of Eastside Market is long gone. As upwardly mobile Italians moved out of Little Italy, the demand for Italian and Mediterranean produce waned. By the time Johnny Angiuli purchased the market in 1974 from Sam Pontrelli and George Laricchia, after having worked there for fifteen years, he knew times were changing. He converted the market section of the store into a dining room and introduced hot foods to the deli. Angiuli has seen the neighborhood turnover many times from good to bad to good again. The 1970s, in particular, was a lean decade, when the neighborhood was at a crossroads with an ever-diminishing and aging Italian population and influxes of decidedly non-Mediterranean residents. This isn't entirely true. There are a lot of Italians in Northeast LA and East LA county, even in Lincoln Heights. Since the boomers, they've embraced the Chicano culture that now dominates the region. Many Latinos in California have Italian lineage, due to intermarrying between the cultures. I'm sorry if these older Italians that contribute to these articles have too much pride in their "Mediterranean" lineage to accept it, but it's the truth. Italians that grew up in Latino areas of California have their "Brown Card". The two cultures have largely embraced each other since the 1960s.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: night_timer]
#951203
08/24/18 02:36 PM
08/24/18 02:36 PM
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Giacomo_Vacari
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There are still members in Los Angeles, but the family is defunct. Overall excluding the former L.A. family members. The Gambino family has three made members in the area, the Genovese family has one member, the Outfit has two members, Detroit has one maybe two members in the area, Colombos only has one member and the last known made member on the west coast, Bonanno family has two or maybe one member as Ronnie has not been kicking anything up since the 1990's. Then you have a bunch of associates and half-ass wiseguys in the area. That is it for American LCN, then you get into the Sicilians and Italy members who operate in the drug trade, some with connections to Canada and South America.
Oaks is right in his post about the majority of those with Italian ancestry in SoCal, even in Nor-Cal.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: Hollander]
#951250
08/25/18 09:19 AM
08/25/18 09:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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furio_from_naples
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Hollander .tommy never spent a day in prison, his father did more than twenty, but was deported and is a member of sicily.hope that helps You´re right my friend the father did the time. The sons Tommy and Anthony have no record. Rosario "Sal" Gambino (Tommy's father)was a sicilians from pizza connection and was expelled from the USA in 2009,in Italy he was sentenced in absentia for a 40 kg of heroin found in Milan in 1983 but in 2014 in appeal the sentenced was overtuned and he is free from then.
Last edited by furio_from_naples; 08/25/18 09:20 AM.
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#951273
08/25/18 09:24 PM
08/25/18 09:24 PM
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OakAsFan
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Green Grove Retirement Communi...
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Hollander .tommy never spent a day in prison, his father did more than twenty, but was deported and is a member of sicily.hope that helps Bronx do you think tommy is a capo of some sort of gambino crew in LA ? I hear that Tommy Gambino taked what remained of the L.A. crew under the Gambinos umbrella. This sounds very believable. I'm guessing that anyone made under Milano looking to put money on the street today is answering to the Gambinos. And, even with that, we're talking, what, some bookmaking and loan sharking? If even that? Very, very slim piece of the pie left in LA's underworld for Italians. They'd make more just working for a living.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
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Re: What's happening in Italian LCN in LA?
[Re: jace]
#952071
09/03/18 10:03 AM
09/03/18 10:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,368
MeyerLansky
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,368
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In Fratiano's book and interviews So, we all know about the LCN influence in NYC and Las Vegas, but what was the overall level of power of LCN in LA?
And how does the LCN influence compare today in NYC, after Giuliani?
Was the LCN screwed even before Giuliani - and after 911 - gave rise to greater police powers on every street corner?
(Not wanting to say no to police vigilance on the streets of NYC, just asking a question.... ) They were in trouble way before Giuliani. I think LA is dead and New York is still active, but with low quality members compared to the older generation, I have to read Frattiano's book and see what he says about the state of LA when he was in it. "low quality" ?! no one knows that ! since 911 the lcn have rest from the feds so they rebuilding themselves, and they are on very low profile almost no knows who the bosses of any family in ny... don't get me wrong i understand your comment buddy cause it looks like they are weak, but imo they are rebuilding themselves. but no one really knows the truth.
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