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Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948648
07/29/18 07:53 PM
07/29/18 07:53 PM
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If he's serving alone it's fucked up but he has probably wiseguys around him, like when he was in that band lol.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948650
07/29/18 08:08 PM
07/29/18 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Originally Posted by MightyDR
Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by MightyDR
I'm sure the list of high level mob rats that we don't know about would surprise us and that there were a lot more than revealed, but 50% is way too high. Also, considering the era they were alive in, we can't dismiss Frank Costello and Carlo Gambino outright as rats just because they were successful. Law enforcement was all over them in the later part of their careers and Costello even had to do some prison time. Now they may have ratted rivals out in their path to the top before they became a major law enforcement target like we know Luciano did, but there is no evidence.




Luciano received a 40 year sentence and was doing his time like a man till his friends cut. deal to get him out, Gambino was harassed constantly after Valachi testified, and they even leaked. taped conversation between him and his wife to harass him in the newspapers. They treat rats different. Greg Scarpa was given immunity to do as he pleased for many years, same for Whitey Bulger. The rats are never pressured publicly or privately, unless they stop giving info. If Gambino or Costello gave "Tidbits" as a few like to try to get others to believe, they would have way more demanded of them to keep them out of prison. Underobess would go away, and in the old day a few small pieces of info would have never sufficed. The fact is the Mafia thrived for one main reason: No rats till Scarpa. Anastasia's brother is sad to have gave info after his brother was killed, but how true is that, and who dis the actually give up? Answer: No one.



When I said Luciano did, I was referring to his early days when he ratted out fellow dope dealers.

https://www.nytimes.com/1936/06/04/...-crimes-sold-narcotics-and-perjured.html

"Lucania admitted that as a youth he had sold narcotics and that once he had given Federal agents here information that led to the seizure of a trunkful of narcotics"

In Raab's "Five Families", he tells how this helped him evade arrest.

Faithful1 wrote an amazing article on Luciana for Informer magazine. It broke down the myths of Luciana and the inaccuracies of The Last Testament. He goes into detail about this early episode involving the providing of said information.

The guy who does the comic books, his first name is Chris but I can't remember his last name but he also wrote a good non hyped only facts book about Lucky.



Thanks kingoflittlenewyork. I'll check them out.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948657
07/29/18 10:01 PM
07/29/18 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by MightyDR
I'm sure the list of high level mob rats that we don't know about would surprise us and that there were a lot more than revealed, but 50% is way too high. Also, considering the era they were alive in, we can't dismiss Frank Costello and Carlo Gambino outright as rats just because they were successful. Law enforcement was all over them in the later part of their careers and Costello even had to do some prison time. Now they may have ratted rivals out in their path to the top before they became a major law enforcement target like we know Luciano did, but there is no evidence.




Luciano received a 40 year sentence and was doing his time like a man till his friends cut. deal to get him out, Gambino was harassed constantly after Valachi testified, and they even leaked. taped conversation between him and his wife to harass him in the newspapers. They treat rats different. Greg Scarpa was given immunity to do as he pleased for many years, same for Whitey Bulger. The rats are never pressured publicly or privately, unless they stop giving info. If Gambino or Costello gave "Tidbits" as a few like to try to get others to believe, they would have way more demanded of them to keep them out of prison. Underobess would go away, and in the old day a few small pieces of info would have never sufficed. The fact is the Mafia thrived for one main reason: No rats till Scarpa. Anastasia's brother is sad to have gave info after his brother was killed, but how true is that, and who dis the actually give up? Answer: No one.

No snitches till Scarpa?

Really?

There were atleast 2 snitches in Morello's family and I'm talking like 1900s.

There have always been snitches, from day one. Y'all can argue till your blue in the face but the fact is there have been snitches from the very beginning of the mob.

Read The Rat Trap articles. Read The Informer article by faithful1(and 2 other co-authors) about the early days of the New York Mafia. Read The Barrel Murder by William Flynn. Read The First Family by Mike Dash.

Argue the specifics of what constitutes being a snitch all day long but the facts remain.




" Y'all can argue till your blue"

"Y'all" Are we in Arkansas or something?

Those bloggers who have theories they go out of the way to bend to fit their agenda don't impress me. The Morelllo Gang was not really American Mafia, of which we are discussing. Y' all.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: jace] #948658
07/29/18 10:15 PM
07/29/18 10:15 PM
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That's your argument? That there were no informants before Scarpa? My statement was not a theory, it is a well documented fact. Simply go to Mary Ferrell's site and type 'informant' into the search. You telling me every single source in the country is Scarpa?

I didn't realize a made Mafioso that moved to America and started a gang was not considered the Mafia lol

Would you like more examples relevant to the modern Mafia or are you just here to argue?

And yes I'm from Arkansas.

One last thing, who did Scarpa testify against to get less time?

Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/29/18 10:42 PM.
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948664
07/29/18 11:46 PM
07/29/18 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
That's your argument? That there were no informants before Scarpa? My statement was not a theory, it is a well documented fact. Simply go to Mary Ferrell's site and type 'informant' into the search. You telling me every single source in the country is Scarpa?

I didn't realize a made Mafioso that moved to America and started a gang was not considered the Mafia lol

Would you like more examples relevant to the modern Mafia or are you just here to argue?

And yes I'm from Arkansas.

One last thing, who did Scarpa testify against to get less time?



If you are not familiar with Scarpa you need to read up on him.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948666
07/30/18 12:06 AM
07/30/18 12:06 AM
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He is not a reincarnation of Nicola Gentile, like I guess you imagine him to be. I've read everything on him you have buddy. He testified against no one. All those years of informing did him alot of good after he was sentenced to LIFE IN JAIL FOR MURDER in 95.

Nice try though.

Please tell me the mob didn't sell drugs next. Tell me Frank Costello didn't go to a shrink. Pull a pic and tell me Chin missed on purpose. But if your gonna sit here and say there where no snitches before Scarpa then your just out of touch.

Hell Valachi was even before Scarpa. Every blacked out name really just says Scarpa under it.

The FBI still doesn't release names of informants after they die so none of y'all can sit here and say who talked and who didn't. Hell Owney Madden talked and gave info to the FBI every damn month after he moved to Hot Springs.

Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/30/18 12:31 AM.
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948668
07/30/18 12:30 AM
07/30/18 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
He is not a reincarnation of Nicola Gentile, like I guess you imagine him to be. I've read everything on him you have buddy. He testified against no one. All those years of informing did him alot of good after he was sentenced to LIFE IN JAIL FOR MURDER in 95.

Nice try though.

Please tell me the mob didn't sell drugs next.

Hell Valachi was even before Scarpa. You don't have to admit your wrong Jace. Just keep beating this dead horse.



No, Scarpa was giving info BEFORE Valachi. He was getting away with murders and robberies for 30 years, and would have kept getting any if his collaboration with the corrupt FBI agent had not given him away. They gave him way too much leeway, and the multiple killings in the war between the Columbo factions led to his going away. I don't know why you pull out Nicole Gentile or drugs, which has nothing to do with this. Just here to troll I assume.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: jace] #948669
07/30/18 12:38 AM
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Valachi testified in 63 but was talking to investigators before Oct 62 when Scarpa was arrested and flipped.

Your beyond reach, have a good night.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948670
07/30/18 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
He is not a reincarnation of Nicola Gentile, like I guess you imagine him to be. I've read everything on him you have buddy. He testified against no one. All those years of informing did him alot of good after he was sentenced to LIFE IN JAIL FOR MURDER in 95.

Nice try though.

Please tell me the mob didn't sell drugs next. Tell me Frank Costello didn't go to a shrink. Pull a pic and tell me Chin missed on purpose. But if your gonna sit here and say there where no snitches before Scarpa then your just out of touch.

Hell Valachi was even before Scarpa. Every blacked out name really just says Scarpa under it.

The FBI still doesn't release names of informants after they die so none of y'all can sit here and say who talked and who didn't. Hell Owney Madden talked and gave info to the FBI every damn month after he moved to Hot Springs.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948671
07/30/18 12:43 AM
07/30/18 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Valachi testified in 63 but was talking to investigators before Oct 62 when Scarpa was arrested and flipped.

Your beyond reach, have a good night.



Scarpa was cooperating first, in 1962 according to his files, and was suspected by Columbo members and associates of being a rat in 1973, according to his sons book.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948672
07/30/18 12:45 AM
07/30/18 12:45 AM
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All pre October 1962 info was just guess work then. Mystery solved. Thanks for your help Jace.

Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/30/18 12:46 AM.
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948673
07/30/18 12:47 AM
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[quote=kingoflittlenewyork]All pre 1962 info was just guess work then. Mystery solved. Thanks for your help Jace.[/quote

If that isn't sarcasm, thank you. I have never heard of Owney Madden being a rat, where is that from?

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948674
07/30/18 12:54 AM
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FBI reports on Hot Springs during antiracketeering investingtions to determine weather Chicago or New York gangsters had interests in the casinos of Hot Springs. He confirmed Gangster visits and gave info on local politicians and casino owners, including himself. Btw it's pre 1962 info.

And it was sarcasm....if you want to believe Scarpa was the first snitch in the history of the mob go right ahead cause I'm done with it.

Last edited by kingoflittlenewyork; 07/30/18 12:55 AM.
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948675
07/30/18 12:57 AM
07/30/18 12:57 AM
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Go to Mary Ferrell.org

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: jace] #948685
07/30/18 03:27 AM
07/30/18 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Valachi testified in 63 but was talking to investigators before Oct 62 when Scarpa was arrested and flipped.

Your beyond reach, have a good night.



Scarpa was cooperating first, in 1962 according to his files, and was suspected by Columbo members and associates of being a rat in 1973, according to his sons book.


Valachi was cooperating before Scarpa to the FBN. The FBN and the FBI were fighting for control of Valachi when he killed the wrong man. Jack Ruby was even an "Informant" to the FBN but he gave little info and misinformation, he has a light file to his name. The FBN had made members giving information to them before the FBI got involved.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #948777
07/30/18 10:40 PM
07/30/18 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Valachi testified in 63 but was talking to investigators before Oct 62 when Scarpa was arrested and flipped.

Your beyond reach, have a good night.



Scarpa was cooperating first, in 1962 according to his files, and was suspected by Columbo members and associates of being a rat in 1973, according to his sons book.


Valachi was cooperating before Scarpa to the FBN. The FBN and the FBI were fighting for control of Valachi when he killed the wrong man. Jack Ruby was even an "Informant" to the FBN but he gave little info and misinformation, he has a light file to his name. The FBN had made members giving information to them before the FBI got involved.




How much did Ruby really have to give? Not much I think, if anything at all.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948793
07/31/18 08:08 AM
07/31/18 08:08 AM
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Just his rivals, and some meetings when the FBN pressed him. The file is really light has there are pages missing. The FBN had someone in the colombo family before Scarp


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948798
07/31/18 11:10 AM
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FBN and before them the Secret Service had informants at the turn of the century.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #948853
07/31/18 10:54 PM
07/31/18 10:54 PM
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>>>OVA THERE
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>>>OVA THERE
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
The FBN had someone in the colombo family before Scarpa


Yup, I heard it was Frankie Shots.


"Jersey...It's where my story begins."
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948880
08/01/18 06:55 AM
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There have always been junkies and drunks in all fringes of all the families that some became informants once it became get out of jail free card it was open season and it will never stop .

Telling you they have to do lie detectors tests all the way to the boss it will dramatically save there ass and after time it will slow down any thoughts of rats like in the 50’s and 60’s many would die before ratting.


Cackling like a banty Rooster.

I love this," "I just love this."
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: njcapo35] #948896
08/01/18 09:42 AM
08/01/18 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by njcapo35
Originally Posted by Giacomo_Vacari
The FBN had someone in the colombo family before Scarpa


Yup, I heard it was Frankie Shots.


I don't think so, but someone close to Frankie Shots, John Oddo, and Phil Fontana that is for sure. Also the informant was born in Villabate, Frankie Shots was not born there.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948897
08/01/18 10:20 AM
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lol do you really think a bunch of tough black or latinos go after a mafia boss since 1973? prison gangs go after vulnerable people, not mafia members
no way somebody direspect carmine persico in prison, i don't know usa prisons but i bet it
in italy is unthinkable to touch a sicilian/calabrian/neapolitan organized crime member in any italian prison, included the northern ones, but even in the states and outside east coast i think prison gangs stay away from organized crime members

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: m2w] #948902
08/01/18 12:31 PM
08/01/18 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by m2w
lol do you really think a bunch of tough black or latinos go after a mafia boss since 1973? prison gangs go after vulnerable people, not mafia members
no way somebody direspect carmine persico in prison, i don't know usa prisons but i bet it
in italy is unthinkable to touch a sicilian/calabrian/neapolitan organized crime member in any italian prison, included the northern ones, but even in the states and outside east coast i think prison gangs stay away from organized crime members



That's probably what john gotti thought right up until he was getting his face pummeled. I don't know about new york, but in Chicago everybody left everybody else alone. Meaning the different races didn't bother other races

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948930
08/01/18 03:50 PM
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walter johnson was crazy, it's another matter

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948944
08/01/18 05:30 PM
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And Gotti provoked him if I’m correct . Clever old old school guys like Persico wouldn’t even acknowledge Johnson in the first place

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948945
08/01/18 05:33 PM
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Unless we going 50 years back to the 70s when mob had unlimited power and could get away with more with other inmates and guards. Guys like galante would of done the same as Gotti however he could back it up back then with power. Things changed since Gotti first prison stint back in the 70s! He didn’t change with the times though!

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948946
08/01/18 05:37 PM
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Thanks for posting the rat trap website. Been literally reading It every evening for days since you put it up. Whoever the guy is writing that needs to write more. Brilliant read.

If you have any more website shouts like that please post!

Last edited by streetbossliborio; 08/01/18 05:39 PM.
Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: streetbossliborio] #948948
08/01/18 06:13 PM
08/01/18 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by streetbossliborio
Thanks for posting the rat trap website. Been literally reading It every evening for days since you put it up. Whoever the guy is writing that needs to write more. Brilliant read.

If you have any more website shouts like that please post!

It is a great site overall not just the Rat Trap section. I'm sure your already aware of David's Gangster Inc site. There is one more I can think of now let me find the link real quick.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: kingoflittlenewyork] #948949
08/01/18 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kingoflittlenewyork
Originally Posted by streetbossliborio
Thanks for posting the rat trap website. Been literally reading It every evening for days since you put it up. Whoever the guy is writing that needs to write more. Brilliant read.

If you have any more website shouts like that please post!

It is a great site overall not just the Rat Trap section. I'm sure your already aware of David's Gangster Inc site. There is one more I can think of now let me find the link real quick.

http://www.allanrmay.com/site/7aa0693c081140819f3cf333e8710811/default?url=http%3A%2F%2Fallanrmay.com%2FShort_Stories.html#2764

This is Allan May's site, he is a contributor to Rick Porrelos American Mafia site. Which is
http://www.americanmafia.com/index.html

Rick wrote 'To Kill The Irishman', the Danny Greene book that was made into a movie.

There is a list of sites for researching the Mafia faithful1 has, pm him and ask for it because I simply don't want to post it as my own.

Re: Isn’t Carmine Persico considered a prison [Re: Tonytough] #948950
08/01/18 06:28 PM
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The link for Allan May's site didn't post right but you can simply type Allan May Mafia into Google and it will pop up.

Also fbi.gov has a vault of FBI files that have been released over the years, they are not all about the Mafia but there is a search feature and A-Z index.

Also www.maryferrell.org is imo the best site there is for researching the Mafia. It is based around the JFK assassination investigation but is full of FBI files on the Mafia.

I hope this helps.

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