Also, how many rats has Buffalo had?

You have 3 more questions Nicky

He has an answer to his question, but I only count 2 questions for him... Yours about rats and mine about the Canadian Paper directly implicating the Buffalo Crime Family. Am I missing one?

My question was actually an answer to his question.....his answer to yours will be a muddled on, that probably will say that the journalist got it wrong and what they meant to say is the members from the once Buffalo family who are
still alive were involved in the bust

It doesn't state the Buffalo family is active at all.
It says ''the arrests also hit members of the Buffalo crime family headed by the late Joe Todaro''

The word 'members' says nothing about the family as a whole and if it's active or defunct, which the media and LE has been saying for over a decade now. The word 'members' only means that there still are individual members and/or associates active. The same way there are still are individual members of the L.A. family or Cleveland family active..

And then the argument can be made that they wouldnt say Buffalo Crime Family if it waant functioning

But if the Buffalo Family is defunct and without leadership, why would a Canadian paper highlight the fact that those arrests were members of the Buffalo Crime Family instead of highlighting the Canadian Family or Families they were working for?

If the papers are referencing the Violi brothers and/or Carfagna...Why do they not just call them out as members of the Luppino Crime Family of Canada instead of reference the Buffalo family at all if Buffalo is truly defunct? I find that strange. Don't you?

Why would organized crime FBI agents and investigators want funding to go to other squads? It doesn't make sense. If OC agents have ANY agenda, that agenda would be to get more funding. It's not anti-terrorism agents saying the Buffalo mafia is dead. It is the Organized Crime FBI agents.

And you say your info comes from cops. Why are cops keeping tabs on these guys if they concede the Buffalo mob is dead? Counter-intuitive to say the least.



The bust last year was strictly Canada-based. As I said before, I concede the Papalia operation might have stuff still going on but under the umbrella of the other, stronger criminal organizations.

And the Ciminelli bust does not count. There is literally NO mob ties there. There was an undercover informant in the case, and he didn't say ANYTHING about the mob. Nobody in that case mentioned the Buffalo mafia, or any Mafia for that money.

The Brian Cohen bust was not connected to the Buffalo Mafia at all, and again, you are the first person to mention any ties to the Buffalo mob. Federal prosecutors never mentioned his ties to the Buffalo crime family. The feds never did. No one did. He was a Lucchese crime family associate, living in Buffalo, basing his operations in Costa Rica and online. To the best of my knowledge, he didn't have any activities actually in Buffalo. It was all Costa Rica-based or online.


There has literally been ONE bust in the past 15 years, which was entirely Canada-based. And if the Papalia outfit is still active and has ties to the Buffalo faction of the Todaro crime family, then this brings me to my second question:
""By the way Rooster, why do you think the Musitanos whacked Papalia and his top lieutenant? For fun? Or to take over their rackets and interests?"" I asked that one twice.

You are really deluded if you think, because a family becomes defunct, remaining members stop being members. They don't become un-made. Look at the Joseph Gagliano case.

Once you are made, you are made for life. James Tartaglione himself said that, even though he is a rat and testified against his fellow mobsters, he is still a made member of the family. He is simply "on the shelf." There is no case of a mobster being "un-made" from a crime family.

So Billy is 100% right.

Just because a member or members of a crime family were still active, does not mean the family as a whole is active. Look at Gagliano. Look at shelved members that get busted, like Mondo Rea. No one disputed Sammy the Bull was a Gambino crime family member when he was busted in Arizona.

The Todaro crime family case needs a hell of a lot more information. It does not, in any way, shape or form, prove that the family is still active. None of them were charged with racketeering, or the Canadian equivalent of racketeering. They were charged strictly with drug-trafficking. If Russell Papalardo were to be busted today for selling weed, no one would dispute he is the last known boss of the Cleveland crime family. But just because he (for the sake of argument) is caught selling weed, does not mean the Cleveland crime family is still an active hierarchy.

Joseph Gagliano was busted in 2014, and labelled a New Orleans crime family member. That family has been dead as a doorknob for decades, and no one has tried to claim otherwise (to the best of my knowledge).

When Big Billy D'Elia was busted in 2006, he was labelled the boss of the Bufalino crime family even though nobody was saying that the Bufalinos were still active. He was running an independent scheme of his, and not tied into any actual Mafia activity. But he was nevertheless charged with being the boss of the Bufalino crime family.


So, in closing, a made member of a crime family can be busted, but that doesn't prove his organization is still active. It is just a way for the feds to highlight his past criminal activity.

By the way Nickle, my response above covers your question. Good work trying to predict my answer Rooster, but you were way off.

I just anwered your question and you get answers you dont like because they dont fit your narrative.


One question per post, you have three left

Here is a question, and I really don't know the answer, but didn't what was left of the Papalia family end up in the Luppino organization? Or did they regroup and stay a separate family. I can' see them working for the Musitano's after the Johnny Pops and Barillaro hits...

We already concluded both Giacomo anx I believe Cohen was with Nicoletti

I, according to you, know nothing about Buffalo so it's pretty clear you're just asking this to try and catch me saying something incorrect.

Was John Sacco ever made? I know he was pretty high-ranking, very close to the Todaros. But I personally haven't seen anything indicating that he was actually made. The Buffalo News called him a mob associate. Gangster Report called him a capo, don't know where they got that from. Then again, they also called Carmine (Papa Smurf) Franco a Genovese capo even though he is a (confirmed) associate.

I don't think Billy the Kid was made either, was he?

Ok, so theyve had 2 if we count Sacco

You go on tangents even when im being decenf enough to offer you a revisit to your questions.

Billy the Kid? Wtf

Evidence is my only narrative. If it comes out from a real source tomorrow that the Buffalo crime family is still active with a fully active hierarchy, I'll concede I'm wrong.



You're limiting my questions now? If you're trying to find excuses to answer as little questions as you can, that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Three questions Nicky...you just dont understand do you?

The key phrase is last known member of... Would't it make sense if the Canadian papers said last known to be members of the defunct or nearly defunct Buffalo Crime family?

Why not mention the Violi's connection to the Luppino Crime Family? Maybe they just don't have enough info to make that case--just as NYState OC Task Force and DA in Western NY couldn't tie Butch Quaracini and others in local 91 to the Buffalo Crime family--even thought they were?
That make sense to me... Doesn't make sense to you? If not, why not?

Lol nice try. What other questions do you have?

Giacomo and you aren't the definitive experts on the subject. We really have no clue who either of you are.

Then why cant you just agree to disagree? Why not just wait until a source you feel comcortable with comes out?

Ok, and thats your right to not to believe us isnf it?

So now were right back to where we were a week ago...good job

God please, i hope youre nog writing another novel

Just because they chose not to throw in an adjective doesn't mean they are wrong.
Does Violi have a connection to the Luppino crime family? I know he definitely has a connection to the Buffalo crime family, since his grandfather was a Buffalo capo.

On that last part... you are saying that 'maybe they simply don't have enough evidence to definitively say that the Buffalo Mafia is active.' But they have specifically said the Buffalo Mafia is dead.

A source I feel comfortable with HAS come out. That source is called the Buffalo News, the FBI, the Erie County District Attorney, federal prosecutors and Scott Deitche, all of whom have said the Buffalo Mafia isn't active.

Ok, yes we all understand that Nicky from Tampa believes that Buffalo is dead. So now what?

No ...they didn't have enough evidence to connect Quaracini to the Buffalo mob even though he and Local 91 were connected. I am saying maybe they know the Buffalo Mob is active. That is why they mention it. They just don't have enough evidence to legally prove it and do the Canadian Equivalent of RICO predicate--just like with LIUNA 91.

The only Canadian equivalent would be Gangsterism i believe