Rooster, why are you so hell bent on proving the Arm still exists ? It doesn't, I live in the suburb that's 20-25 minutes from EVERY place in WNY. I can get to Hertel in 4 minutes, The Falls Casino in 25 and downtown only 15 minutes. I live here too. And there simply is no more family. Again like it's been said before that doesn't mean there are no mafioso left in the city who is still involved in crime, just that the family is finished. There's no administration. There is no soldiers. Even if it was still alive there is zero chance there are more then 10-15 legit made guys still active. That's a glorified crew not a family.

And it'll never come back. Not unless you allow any earner to join even if they don't have a vowel at the end of their name. And if they do that then they aren't even Cosa Nostra anymore just another street gang. It's never coming back. There aren't enough Young Hard working Italian men to replenish the ranks. There is zero reason for a young man of Italian/Sicilian heritage to kick up the ladder, there is no benefit. There's no more extreme violence. They have no power left in the unions etc....even if there was a young man who was Italian descent who was a earner (moving product or loan sharking or book making/running a card game ) why would he want to get involved and forced to kick up to some guy who he has zero loyalty to? Why would anyone want to give 10-20% of their weekly earnings in 2018. This isn't the 60s/70s anymore. The only thing you would get being involved with Cosa Nostra in 2018 is your name coming up in investigations

I don't know what you mean by this. Members of defunct families can get indicted as members of said family, even if that family isn't active. This is because once you are made, you take the vow for life. Even flipped crime family members have said they are still members, just "on the shelf." It was a Bonanno guy that said that.



Why? If the guy was made in the 90s, the family went defunct in the early 00s, and the guy was indicted in 2017, he is still a member of the "Todaro organized crime family." The feds are under no obligation to specify that the family is defunct, because the guy is not charged with being a Mafia member, he is charged with narcotics trafficking, according to the DOJ.

Preface: I still don't believe that the family is active.

With that being said - in your opinion, how did the Canadian wing survive following the assassinations of the crew's capo and second-in-command (and maybe more). Facing pressure from the Musitano crew and the Luppino crew, wouldn't they have dissipated quite quickly after that?

Valid reasons on both whack whack and Nicky from Tampa, I mut admit, I'm starting to have my doubts as well. If violi is the underboss of buffalo, then why in the hell is he living almost 7 hours away in Hamilton???

Cause the Luppinos never broke off from Buffalo. Giacomo didn't break off from the family even during the factions split or when Natale good friend Paul Volpe was killed. While Vincenzo Jimmy Luppino was the Boss of Hamilton, he still had meetings with Bifulco, Falzone, Miceli, Nicolettis, but no known meetings with the Todaros during the 1990's. Jimmy was slated to be killed by the Musitanos, but Murdock did not have an opportunity as Luppino always had at least one heavy hitter around him who served as his bodyguard or chauffeur. The Luppinos were still intact and the Musitanos could not capitalize on Hamilton, plus a cop on the Luppinos pay said that arrests were coming soon on the Musitanos and their associates, so the Luppinos did nothing to the brothers. The Papalia crew never recovered and is currently a pasteurized crew, hardly active with the exception of Joe Pugliese.

I don't know enough about the situation to comment on everything you said, but it is interesting nevertheless.

Here is an excerpt I used from Hamilton newspaper 'The Spec' to base my post:
"In their heyday, the Musitanos, the Papalias and the Luppinos each staked out territory here and sometimes killed over it."

Hamilton is 60 miles from Buffalo, 7 hours?? Violi use to live in Montreal I believe which is 7 hrs

I guess it all depends on interpretation of what the Mafia is in a smaller regio in 2018. So you dont believe that there is younger members that kick up? Feliciano? Cardinale? There not on record with anyone and in line? Cmon. Thats the part that I believe to not be the case. Your giving your opinion as am I, youre trying to assume based off what you believe as am I. Youre throwing numbers of 15-20%, when it could simply be a few as at Christmas time. Im not hell bent, I just think that evidence, combined with local rumor combined with coincidence proves there still is an active, structured family.

@ Nicky, why would the DOJ 1) create a name never used before in the "Todaro Organized Crime Family"? and elude to jts existence if it was current? They would be be more nostalgic and historical about it. Theres no other reason to use it unless it is active, even if they mean it is a former shell of itself.

And it might just be a crew, on the New York side of things and they might be semi-subservient to Canada at this point.

@ Nicky, or it could say a member of a Buffalo Mafia Family who since has switched allegiance to a Canadian Crime Family

@ Nicky....good find on the Tampa stuff, although I believe one cant compare Buffalo to any defunct families in the last 20 years

@Rooster, do you second what Vacari wrote about Canada post-Papalia?

Also, it's hard to say what the feds think about the Todaro crime family at the moment. You have made some good points but I think unless they explicitly say the family is active, they are simply trying to add weight to their case.

The only verification I can give to his statements are that Falzone and Nicoletti (Bifulco did 10 years from 02 to 2012 so) were in fact very close to the Canadians all the way up to their deaths. The rest, in theory, makes sense but again without verification I understand its hard for anyone to believe.

Getting back to the Wilson case, I figured out the connection, although I admit its layered. The cop who got busted along with Wilson and convicted was a good friend of Sansaneses.

And youre right, but why bring the name up, unless its for another reason, if they in fact are separate from Canada now?

http://aboutthemafia.com/investigat...f-the-buffalo-mafia-family#disqus_thread

I am sure everyone has seen the above.

It appears that LE is referencing a source I image someone is either CI , or someone who already flipped on the case.

They are going as far to mention titles I.E. Violi is the underboss.
Operating in Canada controlling the Canada faction.
On the American side the boss of the family is operating.

If you guys recall the Bonanno's were written off by the FBI and every major LE agency of that time period.

They emerged shortly thereafter with Massino hosting a commission meeting.

I am not comparing the Bonanno's with Buffalo.

I am.making a point they were counted out so much so the FBI didn't even have a squad for them, SOUND FAMILIAR?

Also, the Columbo'S have been counted out, so many times who can count? basically that the whole family was to be taken over kinda like a hostile takeover.

The only problem with that is that no one bothered to tell Carmine and all his loyal shooters what they thought they were going to do with them.

If you look at the Scopo hit, that was amoung of things a F.U. to GOTTI, who at that time was one of the most powerful mobsters in the world.

1) Gotti ordered the gambino's to not acknowledge the snake as boss anymore.
2) Gotti told both sides that his neighborhood was off limits, NO SHOOTING in his backyard.
3) Scoopo was very very close to the Gotties.
4) Gotti was abusing the Snake or trying to anyway.
5) Scoop had a joint book with the Gotties.

The Columbo's went into Howard beach and took out Scoopo.

That was An FU to Gotti.

Again the Columbo's for all intents and purposes were being counted out.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is not that Buffalo is as strong as either of these families however, you cannot say for sure if and how they are operating.

What we do have is an indictment that shows they are active today.
And a source that is saying the family is fully intact.

The source could be full of shit or may be 1000% CORRECT.
How could we tell? TIME WILL TELL.
How do we believe anything that anyone's says for that matter?

The ney Sayers asked for proof
Proof has been provided

I think it is up to the ney Sayers to dis-prove it at this point.

Maybe the moderators can interject at this point as to the acceptable rules?

You must have misread the article, so I'm not going to berate you or whatever. But LE has no said that the Buffalo family is still active. They have not named Violi as the underboss. They have not named a Canada faction. They have not named an American faction. That's plain wrong. I skim-read the article, since it basically rehashes everything that was said on Cosa Nostra News and the other mob forums, but I don't see anything in there which even alludes to the fact that LE thinks the family is active.



We do not have an indictment that shows they are active today. We know that members of the Todaro crime family were arrested in Canada. If, for instance, Dennis Librizzi was arrested for bookmaking, that would not be proof that the Milwaukee crime family is still active. It is completely plausible that a 71-year-old mobster like Librizzi could be committing crimes, but I'm sure no one will argue with me that it wouldn't be on behalf of the "Milwaukee crime family." This is what I believe is the scenario here. The narrative that you are running is that the feds have actively disclosed that the Todaro crime family is active. That is simply not true.
Regarding the Todaro crime family in Canada, the last real news we have is from 1997, when the crew's capo and top lieutenant were murdered by the Musitano mob group in a (successful) effort to dismantle the crew's operations. There was no retaliation from the Todaros. None whatsoever.




There has been NO PROOF that the family is active. I cannot stress that enough. You are simply wrong if you say there is.

Nicky they are active, for the 100th time.

I have been on these boards for quite a while now and as far as I know, there are only 10 viable LCN families left. I believe even the FBI has stated this. The 10 families are the 5 fams of NY, Philly, Jersey, New England, Chicago and Detroit. And even Detroit is debatable as far as being viable by a lot of experts..

And for me personally, the evidence that is presented in this thread, is not convincing enough for me to accept that the Buffalo/Todaro family is presently a viable, full-fledged LCN family. That the family still has active members is clear as day and undeniable, but that doesn't make the family as a whole any less defunct..

Ok, theyre not active

Rooster, there is no proof they are active, for the 100th time.

Nicky,

I appreciate the fact the your not going to berate me, THANK YOU...

I posted the wrong link

After re-reading the articles it states the info is from a credible source but does not state the source.

I don't know how to do the research that some of you guys k ow how to do
Why doesn't some one that knows how just post the Canda version of the indictment
I am sure they have something similar, or something similar to our FBI press releases.

If not that I can't see how.anyone can say for sure anything other than their opinion atleast for now anyway.

In reference to what you said about the Pops hit
Correct me if I am wrong didn't the guy that was responsible for the hit just get buried?
And his brothers house get shot up?

Almost to the day Pops was whacked?

Didn't the Rizzutto's dad get whacked the same way one of the Violo's got whacked?

I am not suggesting anything is connected here
I am saying it looks like the guys who took out the old guard from Buffalo LCN recently had some bad luck, maybe someone put a hex on them?

If I wanted to send a message that something was pay back, I couldn't think of a much better way.

I am not suggesting the family is a full blown LCN family with a full viable structure However, they appear to be a little more than just a couple of leftovers selling buckle bags of weed.

It doesn't seem like the Canadian remnants had anything going for them post-1997, and for them to finally make a revenge move in 2017 is more than improbable. You have to remember that the number-one and number-two men of the relatively small Canada crew were both murdered brutally in 97 and there was no retaliation.

Ok Nicky, I believe you now. Who do you believe the younger members are in line with and who do they answer to?

Nickel Bags of weed

Who ever whacked Nicolo Rizzuto sent a message that atleast In part he was answering for the Violi murders.
Same thing with Mustiano

Then there is a crew in Canada that is whacking out guys that way up on the food chain, and making It look as if it is coming from the defunct
Buffalo LCN family.

When Basciano took over the Bonanno's to send a message he was the man he whacked out Pizzolo and left a body in the street for all go see.

When Merlino was getting out and there was a little confusion as to who was going to be running things in P.A.
A MESSAGE was sent a body was left in the street to show everyone who the boss was, the message was " If you F--K with me, you will be left in the street"

Again not saying this is the same what I am saying there appears to be a message behind these two hits, and that message would only benefit Buffalo,

The message that I see is "PAY BACK"
Who is getting pay back?

There are no "younger members" of the Buffalo crime family. Problem solved. I doubt any are below 65. And if there are a couple guys in their 50s, that happened to be made at a young age in the 90s, then they are not "in line with" anyone. It's not a criminal's burning desire to kick up tribute or be "in line with" anyone. Give me one good reason for a young Italian criminal to want to kick up tribute to some old guy with no power and no money.

Why have they been doing it for the last 100 years? There are young wannabee in their 20's that work for some middle aged guy that they look up to, usually one of the young guys is related to them, like an uncle or something. He then kicks something up to the old guys because they are probably related to them in some way too, and they feel the need to provide something to them. Maybe the kickup ain't even much but they get most of their earning from legit businesses they own from the years of illegal money.