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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: JC]
#901549
12/13/16 03:49 AM
12/13/16 03:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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Tony Bananas was a strong operator but he did not beat the Genovese at their own game as evidenced by the fact that he ended up dead in the Bronx with money shoved up his anus. Originally he tried to set up in the Boot's territory and he got chased and marked for death. It was Carmine Battaglia, an old time Genovese member who was close to Gerry Catena, who saved him, otherwise he would have been dead long before 1980. He was never richer or more powerful than the Boot, Ray De Carlo or Gerry Catena himself, to say otherwise is nuts. Just because one sit down went in his favor does not mean that he was always winning sit downs against those guys. He survived as long as he did because he gave guys like Catena and the Boot a cut of whatever he had. In the end he got too big for his britches and the Genovese played him like a fiddle. He could never beat the Genovese at their own game, they invented it. Trust me, all those Genovese guys hated Caponigro for a reason. It wasn't just ONE sitdown that he won, I don't know what book you are reading or if you're just going on George Anastasia's talking points. Bananas was a force to be reckoned with. He was eating into those Genovese guys action for almost 2 decades. Built a strong Newark crew that rivaled any Genovese Jersey crew. That's why they double crossed Bananas.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: SinatraClub]
#901550
12/13/16 03:54 AM
12/13/16 03:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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The Mary Farrell transcripts show that Eboli was never the acting for Vito, Catena was. Eboli was the acting under boss for Catena and Catena left him alone to pretty much run the NY side of the family because he did not want to be bothered with the day to day machinations involving Gambino, Luchesese, etc. that Eboli complained to him about. Catena was possibly the richest gangster ever and wanted to stay boss in part so that he did not have to share his money with anyone other than Genovese. At the end of the day Eboli himself said in the transcripts that Catena told him that when he (Catena) said that something needed to be done it had to be done and Eboli didn't challenge him on that.
As for Lombardo being boss in 1965, in the Mary Farrell transcripts in which Eboli is puffing Lombardo up and telling him that he should be boss, Lombardo said that things had already been decided, which I have always took to mean that leadership was put in place the way that Vito wanted it,and he was not interested in challenging it. As for Catena, he did not retire full time to Florida until after he got out of jail in 1972, as he was in NJ enough of the time in 1969-1970 to get nailed with the subpoena to testify before the NJ commission on crime. He was not one of the many guys who had fled to Florida who the commission in NJ could never get. His refusal to testify is what got him thrown in jail. Maybe it's just me, but his still being in NJ at that time seems to indicate that he was still boss. I don't know why he would have stayed in NJ and not gone to Florida in the late 60's, where he spent the remainder of his life after he got out of jail in 72, if he was not still acting boss. We will never know but that is my thought.
The third guy in the triumvirate was Mike Miranda. It is hard to tell where he ranked in relation to Eboli, but if I remember correctly he was the one sitting at the head of the table, not Eboli, not Gambino, and not Colombo when the police crashed the meeting, which gives you an idea of the power and respect that he had.
As for the 70's, I think that the longest that Catena would have stayed boss was until 72 when he got out and moved to Florida, but I think that his being boss even that long is questionable. I think that after Eboli was killed and Catena retired that Lombardo and Tieri were the two most powerful guys in the family. As for who was boss, who knows. Some Mary Farrell transcripts indicated that the guys in Chicago recognized Tieri as boss, which is backed up by Jimmy Fratriano in his book. Other sources, including Carfaro, seem to indicate that Lombardo was actually #1, but I am not sure that it matters anymore than the question of who was the actual boss, Ricca, Accardo or Giancana, when Giancana seemed to be running things in Chicago. They were both very powerful and respected. They were also both very wealthy and at times very unhealthy, and they may have taken turns running things when one or the other felt up to it, with help from Fat Tony, Little Eli until he got hit, and others.
Just as an aside, I am not sure why so many posters seem to think that Vito Genovese was some mindless idiot. He was chosen by Luciano over all the others, including Costello, Adonis, etc. to be his underboss, and he was the acting boss for Luciano until he himself had to flee to Italy. Even when he was a captain and then underboss to Costello when he came back, he was always more powerful than his title would indicate, much like Carmine Galante was for the Bonannos. Genovese was an original, like Luciano and Bonanno, and he was respected by guys like Ricca and Patriarca. He was cunning and ruthless, which makes me think that it is bs that there was some kind of set up involving other mob guys like Gambino and Lansky to blow up Appalachian and then get him thrown in jail. Based on his history, I would think that if he even got a whiff of a set up by those guys he would have started hitting people left and right, which he was perfectly capable of doing as evidenced by hits that he called in while he was in jail such as Tony Bender. Also, by that point Lansky was not an independent power who worked with the Genovese, he was an associate who worked for the Genovese, and I don't think that he would have taken the risk to set up Genovese, but that is another story. Most likely, I think that if he was set up he was set up by the government alone. Anyway, those are my thoughts, feel free to poke holes.
Those Mary Ferrell transcripts simply show that there were informants reporting multiple things to be true. This Mary Ferrell document, has Catena being acting boss for Frank Costello, Costello appointing him, and guys not being satisfied with the appointment because some felt that Catena didn't go to bat for his men the way Vito Genovese did. As said before in my earlier post, I don't know who came first and who was acting for whom for certain, by any means. But at the very least, Mary Ferrell transcripts give conflicting information.  (Credit to HK for first raising my attention by posting this on another forum) Also, according to some informers, Tommy Eboli & a Dominick Squantro, I think that was his name, were both present at the Costello hit with Vito Gigante but supposedly got spooked and fled and left Gigante to carry out the shooting himself. So I don't see Eboli acting for Costello. But who knows. There was also informer reports of Jimmy Alo being acting boss after Costello's imprisonment in '52-'53, and others that state he was taking over Joe Adonis' position and chosen at some meeting. That seemed to be an underworld rumor as later informants reported that Alo never had the standing to be acting boss in the Genovese, and another informant shortly after the first whom reported of the meeting, was supposedly high ranking, and he reports of being in NY on a trip from Miami and hearing nothing of the supposed "meeting" or Alo's appointment. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?..._AND%20costelloOthers speak of a Joseph Schipani as taking over Adonis' rackets after his deportation. And others speak of members, Tony The Sheik Carillo, Tommy Eboli & Little Davie Petrillo of the Genovese going to Italy to meet with Adonis to appoint a successor to Vito Genovese who was seriously ill at the time. I don't know if I find that likely. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=68896&relPageId=2&search=Joe_Adonis You have to look at who is giving the info in those files. Your first link is a low level Philly informant, who obviously knows little about NY affairs. You're second link about appointing Jimmy Blue Eyes as Doto's replacement? Look at the members of that meeting.......Jimmy Blue eyes, trigger mike coppola, joey rao, meyer lansky, benny levine, tommy milo, lefty clark, and ben novak. Now do you think Lansky, levine, clark, and novak were there to discuss who takes over positions in the Italian mafia? No. Considering the attendees it was obviously just to straighten out affairs in Florida, mainly Miami Beach.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: yatescj7]
#901553
12/13/16 04:51 AM
12/13/16 04:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 102
SonnyD
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 102
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You're second link about appointing Jimmy Blue Eyes as Doto's replacement? Look at the members of that meeting.......Jimmy Blue eyes, trigger mike coppola, joey rao, meyer lansky, benny levine, tommy milo, lefty clark, and ben novak. Now do you think Lansky, levine, clark, and novak were there to discuss who takes over positions in the Italian mafia? No. Considering the attendees it was obviously just to straighten out affairs in Florida, mainly Miami Beach. Two things being slightly confused here. The 52/53 meeting was to do with Jimmy Blue Eyes taking over from Costello as Syndicate boss, ie: Gambling boss, mainly Miami based as evidenced by the attendees. They were the guys that ran most of the nationwide gambling operations. Casinos and sports betting mainly. The reports of Alo taking over from Adonis were to do with him replacing him as capo in 56 after Adonis was deported. I suspect he was capo before that with his own Bronx based crew and simply took over some of Adonis more lucrative rackets along with some of Joey A's men.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: yatescj7]
#901603
12/13/16 07:12 PM
12/13/16 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
MightyDR
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 865
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Tony Bananas was a strong operator but he did not beat the Genovese at their own game as evidenced by the fact that he ended up dead in the Bronx with money shoved up his anus. Originally he tried to set up in the Boot's territory and he got chased and marked for death. It was Carmine Battaglia, an old time Genovese member who was close to Gerry Catena, who saved him, otherwise he would have been dead long before 1980. He was never richer or more powerful than the Boot, Ray De Carlo or Gerry Catena himself, to say otherwise is nuts. Just because one sit down went in his favor does not mean that he was always winning sit downs against those guys. He survived as long as he did because he gave guys like Catena and the Boot a cut of whatever he had. In the end he got too big for his britches and the Genovese played him like a fiddle. He could never beat the Genovese at their own game, they invented it. Trust me, all those Genovese guys hated Caponigro for a reason. It wasn't just ONE sitdown that he won, I don't know what book you are reading or if you're just going on George Anastasia's talking points. Bananas was a force to be reckoned with. He was eating into those Genovese guys action for almost 2 decades. Built a strong Newark crew that rivaled any Genovese Jersey crew. That's why they double crossed Bananas. I remember reading a MF document where it had Caponigro getting into beefs with Angelo De Carlo that had to be resolved with sitdowns between Catena and Bruno. And that was as early as 1963! I can see why they wanted him out of the way.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: MightyDR]
#901656
12/14/16 04:11 AM
12/14/16 04:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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Tony Bananas was a strong operator but he did not beat the Genovese at their own game as evidenced by the fact that he ended up dead in the Bronx with money shoved up his anus. Originally he tried to set up in the Boot's territory and he got chased and marked for death. It was Carmine Battaglia, an old time Genovese member who was close to Gerry Catena, who saved him, otherwise he would have been dead long before 1980. He was never richer or more powerful than the Boot, Ray De Carlo or Gerry Catena himself, to say otherwise is nuts. Just because one sit down went in his favor does not mean that he was always winning sit downs against those guys. He survived as long as he did because he gave guys like Catena and the Boot a cut of whatever he had. In the end he got too big for his britches and the Genovese played him like a fiddle. He could never beat the Genovese at their own game, they invented it. Trust me, all those Genovese guys hated Caponigro for a reason. It wasn't just ONE sitdown that he won, I don't know what book you are reading or if you're just going on George Anastasia's talking points. Bananas was a force to be reckoned with. He was eating into those Genovese guys action for almost 2 decades. Built a strong Newark crew that rivaled any Genovese Jersey crew. That's why they double crossed Bananas. I remember reading a MF document where it had Caponigro getting into beefs with Angelo De Carlo that had to be resolved with sitdowns between Catena and Bruno. And that was as early as 1963! I can see why they wanted him out of the way. Exactly, and even though Bananas was a soldier in the mid 60s he didn't report to a Capo, he reported directly to the Boss. Bruno had his back too because he was making so much money in North Jersey. That's why the Genovese Family hated both of them and it's why they didn't make a move until Carlo Gambino was dead. Carlo wouldn't have fallen for what Big Paul did. Bananas was a big deal in North Jersey for a long time.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#901775
12/15/16 12:47 AM
12/15/16 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 202
JC
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 202
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As far as the Luchese family after Tommy died, I always assumed that the close relationship that he had with Carlo Gambino gave the Gambinos a leg up on influencing that family after he died. As you mentioned Eboli complains in the Mary Farrell docs about Luchese and Gambino conspiring against him with Genovese away in jail and Catena across the Hudson and not particularly interested in sticking his nose into NY day to day affairs. Also, the marriage between Gambino's son and Luchese's daughter seemed to seal the deal.
Philly is interesting because from what I have read it seemed that Vito Genovese was very close with Bruno's predecessor, Joseph Ida, which was evidenced by the fact that they were stopped in the same car leaving Barbara's property after the Appalachian meeting. I have also read that Catena and Bruno were very close, so I have always thought that the Gambino's influence over Philly really started after Catena retired to Florida in the early 70's, but I could be wrong.
As for Costello's consigliere, I have not looked into that too much, but I always thought of him as being like Giancanna, a guy who did not really care about having a formal structure in place, as long as everyone was making money. The guy Pandolo sounds suspicious because he does not seem to show up anywhere else other than in reference to being Costello's consigliere.
Adonis is really interesting, like Costello and Genovese he was an original and had power that transcended any position that he might hold in the family. One reason that I would think that Moretti got the underboss spot over him and Genovese is that just as Genovese seemed to pick Catena because he was the most powerful guy in the NJ wing when he was boss, Moretti was the most powerful guy in NJ when Costello was boss. Also, I think that I read somewhere that Moretti was Costello's cousin. As for Adonis, I know that he was eventually deported, so maybe his legal problems prevented him from assuming that role, or maybe he didn't want the job and instead wanted to have a role like Jimmy Alo had, more of a floating power that was left alone to run his own rackets wherever they may be and make gobs of money.
As for Miranda, he was very powerful in a couple of boroughs, as I think his crew was actually at least in part based in Brooklyn. No matter what position he held he was highly respected, as he sat as an equal at the table with big bosses like Gambino, Trafficante and Marcello. The attendees at that meeting were really interesting, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall before the meeting was broken up.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: yatescj7]
#901779
12/15/16 01:23 AM
12/15/16 01:23 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 202
JC
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 202
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Why do you want me to trust you? Were you or anyone else that you know present at any of these sit downs? Was Caponigro the Rocky Marciano of sitdowns? What authority do you have that would indicate that he won multiple sit downs? Also, why would you think that I would be going on George Anastasia talking points? He is a Philly writer who if anything would try and talk up Caponigro.
I never disputed that he was a big earner and a power, all that I have said is that he was never as big as Ray DeCarlo and the Boot, let alone Jerry Catena. I don't know how anyone could dispute that statement, looking at all of the available authorities. I am not sure that you could even say that he was bigger than the Gambino capo in NJ, Paterno. If anything he was on par with Bayonne Joe from the Bonanos and Abate from the Lucheses. His territory was limited to a relatively small area of Newark, Down Neck. The Genovese, Gambinos and Lucheses had interests not only in Newark but also Hudson, Passaic, Middlesex and Monmouth counties, among others.
As for all of the alleged sitdowns, most of those would have been decided by Catena and Bruno alone, not Caponigro and whoever he had an issue with in the Genovese. Who knows how the bosses worked those things out, what the give and take was there. As for any arguments that didn't involve the bosses, there were probably more of those than anyone could count involving not only those particular families but all of the others with interests in the area. As an example, when Steve Lenehan, a rat but an associate of multiple NY families with a presence in north Jersey, gave an interview he talked about one time when an associate of Bananas owed him money but refused to pay. Lenehan went to the guy that he was with, Jimmy Higgins of the Gambinos, who had a sitdown with Bananas. Jimmy Higgins told Bananas that since Lenehan was with him Bananas associate would have to pay Lenehan, and Bananas associate paid. Again, I am not disputing that there were sit downs involving Bananas and that he was a pain in the ass for the Genovese guys, but I just haven't seen any evidence that he won all of or the majority of those sit downs.
If you think about it, the Genovese always held Bananas' fate in their hands. It was a Genovese guy, Battaglia, who saved Bananas when the Boot was going to kill him after he chased him out of the ward. For whatever reason, there was enough of a reason for the Genovese to keep him alive, and so he lived. When he outlived his usefulness and it was more beneficial for them for Bananas to be dead, they killed him. Whether he knew it or not, they were in control the whole time.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: JC]
#901782
12/15/16 03:10 AM
12/15/16 03:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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Why do you want me to trust you? Were you or anyone else that you know present at any of these sit downs? Was Caponigro the Rocky Marciano of sitdowns? What authority do you have that would indicate that he won multiple sit downs? Also, why would you think that I would be going on George Anastasia talking points? He is a Philly writer who if anything would try and talk up Caponigro.
I never disputed that he was a big earner and a power, all that I have said is that he was never as big as Ray DeCarlo and the Boot, let alone Jerry Catena. I don't know how anyone could dispute that statement, looking at all of the available authorities. I am not sure that you could even say that he was bigger than the Gambino capo in NJ, Paterno. If anything he was on par with Bayonne Joe from the Bonanos and Abate from the Lucheses. His territory was limited to a relatively small area of Newark, Down Neck. The Genovese, Gambinos and Lucheses had interests not only in Newark but also Hudson, Passaic, Middlesex and Monmouth counties, among others.
As for all of the alleged sitdowns, most of those would have been decided by Catena and Bruno alone, not Caponigro and whoever he had an issue with in the Genovese. Who knows how the bosses worked those things out, what the give and take was there. As for any arguments that didn't involve the bosses, there were probably more of those than anyone could count involving not only those particular families but all of the others with interests in the area. As an example, when Steve Lenehan, a rat but an associate of multiple NY families with a presence in north Jersey, gave an interview he talked about one time when an associate of Bananas owed him money but refused to pay. Lenehan went to the guy that he was with, Jimmy Higgins of the Gambinos, who had a sitdown with Bananas. Jimmy Higgins told Bananas that since Lenehan was with him Bananas associate would have to pay Lenehan, and Bananas associate paid. Again, I am not disputing that there were sit downs involving Bananas and that he was a pain in the ass for the Genovese guys, but I just haven't seen any evidence that he won all of or the majority of those sit downs.
If you think about it, the Genovese always held Bananas' fate in their hands. It was a Genovese guy, Battaglia, who saved Bananas when the Boot was going to kill him after he chased him out of the ward. For whatever reason, there was enough of a reason for the Genovese to keep him alive, and so he lived. When he outlived his usefulness and it was more beneficial for them for Bananas to be dead, they killed him. Whether he knew it or not, they were in control the whole time.
I have just as much, probably more knowledge than you on the subject. Especially with your quote about "Bananas won one sit down". Which proves you know very little about the situation or going off George Anastasia's summary of the Bruno hit. I have a drawer full of files about Newark and the situation there from 20 years before the Bruno hit. They never controlled Bananas. If they could have killed him in 65 they would have. Especially Gyp DeCarlo. Nobody ran Caponigro out of town, he was only ducking the New Jersey authorities like many other mobsters such as Acceturro. And Steve Lenehan? He was how old in 1980 when Caponigro was killed? Mid 20s? But if you want to cite Lenahan as one of your sources on Tony Banans here is an American Mafia interview quote from Lenehan,,,,here is the quote............"I knew of Tony Bannana's because of my association with Jimmy Higgins. My father and Bannana's were good friends and I met him at the American Legion in Short Hills a couple of times. I never did any business with him." That says enough right there. That being said you write off Bananas because he was whacked? So were Anastasia and Castellan, but I guess they weren't that big a deal either. I didn't claim Caponigro was bigger than anyone, but he was bigger than Paterno and on par with Gyp and the Boot at his Zenith. Caponigro had the largest Monte game in the "Metropolitan New Jersey Area". Now if Gyp was so far ahead of Tony Bananas why didn't he have the biggest monte game? Why would Bananas have anything greater than him?
Last edited by yatescj7; 12/15/16 03:17 AM.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: dsd]
#901784
12/15/16 04:11 AM
12/15/16 04:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 155
Downtown NYC
downtown
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 155
Downtown NYC
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There is a Genovese crime family chart (photo) that has Tony Caponigro as a member of Richie Boiardo's regime just google the image, photo is from very early 60's also has Funzi Tieri listed in Mike Miranda's regime (NJ).
wise old owl sat on a oak , the more he heard the less he spoke , the less he spoke the more he heard , wasn't that a wise ole bird.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: yatescj7]
#901805
12/15/16 11:14 AM
12/15/16 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
SinatraClub
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
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The Mary Farrell transcripts show that Eboli was never the acting for Vito, Catena was. Eboli was the acting under boss for Catena and Catena left him alone to pretty much run the NY side of the family because he did not want to be bothered with the day to day machinations involving Gambino, Luchesese, etc. that Eboli complained to him about. Catena was possibly the richest gangster ever and wanted to stay boss in part so that he did not have to share his money with anyone other than Genovese. At the end of the day Eboli himself said in the transcripts that Catena told him that when he (Catena) said that something needed to be done it had to be done and Eboli didn't challenge him on that.
As for Lombardo being boss in 1965, in the Mary Farrell transcripts in which Eboli is puffing Lombardo up and telling him that he should be boss, Lombardo said that things had already been decided, which I have always took to mean that leadership was put in place the way that Vito wanted it,and he was not interested in challenging it. As for Catena, he did not retire full time to Florida until after he got out of jail in 1972, as he was in NJ enough of the time in 1969-1970 to get nailed with the subpoena to testify before the NJ commission on crime. He was not one of the many guys who had fled to Florida who the commission in NJ could never get. His refusal to testify is what got him thrown in jail. Maybe it's just me, but his still being in NJ at that time seems to indicate that he was still boss. I don't know why he would have stayed in NJ and not gone to Florida in the late 60's, where he spent the remainder of his life after he got out of jail in 72, if he was not still acting boss. We will never know but that is my thought.
The third guy in the triumvirate was Mike Miranda. It is hard to tell where he ranked in relation to Eboli, but if I remember correctly he was the one sitting at the head of the table, not Eboli, not Gambino, and not Colombo when the police crashed the meeting, which gives you an idea of the power and respect that he had.
As for the 70's, I think that the longest that Catena would have stayed boss was until 72 when he got out and moved to Florida, but I think that his being boss even that long is questionable. I think that after Eboli was killed and Catena retired that Lombardo and Tieri were the two most powerful guys in the family. As for who was boss, who knows. Some Mary Farrell transcripts indicated that the guys in Chicago recognized Tieri as boss, which is backed up by Jimmy Fratriano in his book. Other sources, including Carfaro, seem to indicate that Lombardo was actually #1, but I am not sure that it matters anymore than the question of who was the actual boss, Ricca, Accardo or Giancana, when Giancana seemed to be running things in Chicago. They were both very powerful and respected. They were also both very wealthy and at times very unhealthy, and they may have taken turns running things when one or the other felt up to it, with help from Fat Tony, Little Eli until he got hit, and others.
Just as an aside, I am not sure why so many posters seem to think that Vito Genovese was some mindless idiot. He was chosen by Luciano over all the others, including Costello, Adonis, etc. to be his underboss, and he was the acting boss for Luciano until he himself had to flee to Italy. Even when he was a captain and then underboss to Costello when he came back, he was always more powerful than his title would indicate, much like Carmine Galante was for the Bonannos. Genovese was an original, like Luciano and Bonanno, and he was respected by guys like Ricca and Patriarca. He was cunning and ruthless, which makes me think that it is bs that there was some kind of set up involving other mob guys like Gambino and Lansky to blow up Appalachian and then get him thrown in jail. Based on his history, I would think that if he even got a whiff of a set up by those guys he would have started hitting people left and right, which he was perfectly capable of doing as evidenced by hits that he called in while he was in jail such as Tony Bender. Also, by that point Lansky was not an independent power who worked with the Genovese, he was an associate who worked for the Genovese, and I don't think that he would have taken the risk to set up Genovese, but that is another story. Most likely, I think that if he was set up he was set up by the government alone. Anyway, those are my thoughts, feel free to poke holes.
Those Mary Ferrell transcripts simply show that there were informants reporting multiple things to be true. This Mary Ferrell document, has Catena being acting boss for Frank Costello, Costello appointing him, and guys not being satisfied with the appointment because some felt that Catena didn't go to bat for his men the way Vito Genovese did. As said before in my earlier post, I don't know who came first and who was acting for whom for certain, by any means. But at the very least, Mary Ferrell transcripts give conflicting information. (Credit to HK for first raising my attention by posting this on another forum) Also, according to some informers, Tommy Eboli & a Dominick Squantro, I think that was his name, were both present at the Costello hit with Vito Gigante but supposedly got spooked and fled and left Gigante to carry out the shooting himself. So I don't see Eboli acting for Costello. But who knows. There was also informer reports of Jimmy Alo being acting boss after Costello's imprisonment in '52-'53, and others that state he was taking over Joe Adonis' position and chosen at some meeting. That seemed to be an underworld rumor as later informants reported that Alo never had the standing to be acting boss in the Genovese, and another informant shortly after the first whom reported of the meeting, was supposedly high ranking, and he reports of being in NY on a trip from Miami and hearing nothing of the supposed "meeting" or Alo's appointment. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?..._AND%20costelloOthers speak of a Joseph Schipani as taking over Adonis' rackets after his deportation. And others speak of members, Tony The Sheik Carillo, Tommy Eboli & Little Davie Petrillo of the Genovese going to Italy to meet with Adonis to appoint a successor to Vito Genovese who was seriously ill at the time. I don't know if I find that likely. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=68896&relPageId=2&search=Joe_Adonis You have to look at who is giving the info in those files. Your first link is a low level Philly informant, who obviously knows little about NY affairs. You're second link about appointing Jimmy Blue Eyes as Doto's replacement? Look at the members of that meeting.......Jimmy Blue eyes, trigger mike coppola, joey rao, meyer lansky, benny levine, tommy milo, lefty clark, and ben novak. Now do you think Lansky, levine, clark, and novak were there to discuss who takes over positions in the Italian mafia? No. Considering the attendees it was obviously just to straighten out affairs in Florida, mainly Miami Beach. That's all true, but you also have to consider the transcripts of the convo between Gyp De Carlo & Anthony "Little Pussy" Russo. That convo also makes it clear that there wasn't a clear cut boss around that time either, it was said to have been Eboli and Catena being on one side, while Miranda, Carillo, Bioardo (I think, I'm not sure), were all vying for control, while Eboli & Pete De Feo & De Carlo's group thought Vito would be getting released, and remained loyal to him. Again, this is as of 62'/'63 though, so I don't know how that would relate to the 70's. And neither De Carlo nor Russo were some low ranking members. And in this convo as well, the issue of Miranda not admiring Vito's choice for boss, Jerry Catena. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...Anthony%20RussoThat right there, says that there were two separate leadership groups at one point. Like I said on the last page, I just don't know if they even knew whom the official boss was, and that goes for the Genovese themselves.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: SinatraClub]
#901915
12/16/16 03:38 AM
12/16/16 03:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Posts: 360
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The Mary Farrell transcripts show that Eboli was never the acting for Vito, Catena was. Eboli was the acting under boss for Catena and Catena left him alone to pretty much run the NY side of the family because he did not want to be bothered with the day to day machinations involving Gambino, Luchesese, etc. that Eboli complained to him about. Catena was possibly the richest gangster ever and wanted to stay boss in part so that he did not have to share his money with anyone other than Genovese. At the end of the day Eboli himself said in the transcripts that Catena told him that when he (Catena) said that something needed to be done it had to be done and Eboli didn't challenge him on that.
As for Lombardo being boss in 1965, in the Mary Farrell transcripts in which Eboli is puffing Lombardo up and telling him that he should be boss, Lombardo said that things had already been decided, which I have always took to mean that leadership was put in place the way that Vito wanted it,and he was not interested in challenging it. As for Catena, he did not retire full time to Florida until after he got out of jail in 1972, as he was in NJ enough of the time in 1969-1970 to get nailed with the subpoena to testify before the NJ commission on crime. He was not one of the many guys who had fled to Florida who the commission in NJ could never get. His refusal to testify is what got him thrown in jail. Maybe it's just me, but his still being in NJ at that time seems to indicate that he was still boss. I don't know why he would have stayed in NJ and not gone to Florida in the late 60's, where he spent the remainder of his life after he got out of jail in 72, if he was not still acting boss. We will never know but that is my thought.
The third guy in the triumvirate was Mike Miranda. It is hard to tell where he ranked in relation to Eboli, but if I remember correctly he was the one sitting at the head of the table, not Eboli, not Gambino, and not Colombo when the police crashed the meeting, which gives you an idea of the power and respect that he had.
As for the 70's, I think that the longest that Catena would have stayed boss was until 72 when he got out and moved to Florida, but I think that his being boss even that long is questionable. I think that after Eboli was killed and Catena retired that Lombardo and Tieri were the two most powerful guys in the family. As for who was boss, who knows. Some Mary Farrell transcripts indicated that the guys in Chicago recognized Tieri as boss, which is backed up by Jimmy Fratriano in his book. Other sources, including Carfaro, seem to indicate that Lombardo was actually #1, but I am not sure that it matters anymore than the question of who was the actual boss, Ricca, Accardo or Giancana, when Giancana seemed to be running things in Chicago. They were both very powerful and respected. They were also both very wealthy and at times very unhealthy, and they may have taken turns running things when one or the other felt up to it, with help from Fat Tony, Little Eli until he got hit, and others.
Just as an aside, I am not sure why so many posters seem to think that Vito Genovese was some mindless idiot. He was chosen by Luciano over all the others, including Costello, Adonis, etc. to be his underboss, and he was the acting boss for Luciano until he himself had to flee to Italy. Even when he was a captain and then underboss to Costello when he came back, he was always more powerful than his title would indicate, much like Carmine Galante was for the Bonannos. Genovese was an original, like Luciano and Bonanno, and he was respected by guys like Ricca and Patriarca. He was cunning and ruthless, which makes me think that it is bs that there was some kind of set up involving other mob guys like Gambino and Lansky to blow up Appalachian and then get him thrown in jail. Based on his history, I would think that if he even got a whiff of a set up by those guys he would have started hitting people left and right, which he was perfectly capable of doing as evidenced by hits that he called in while he was in jail such as Tony Bender. Also, by that point Lansky was not an independent power who worked with the Genovese, he was an associate who worked for the Genovese, and I don't think that he would have taken the risk to set up Genovese, but that is another story. Most likely, I think that if he was set up he was set up by the government alone. Anyway, those are my thoughts, feel free to poke holes.
Those Mary Ferrell transcripts simply show that there were informants reporting multiple things to be true. This Mary Ferrell document, has Catena being acting boss for Frank Costello, Costello appointing him, and guys not being satisfied with the appointment because some felt that Catena didn't go to bat for his men the way Vito Genovese did. As said before in my earlier post, I don't know who came first and who was acting for whom for certain, by any means. But at the very least, Mary Ferrell transcripts give conflicting information. (Credit to HK for first raising my attention by posting this on another forum) Also, according to some informers, Tommy Eboli & a Dominick Squantro, I think that was his name, were both present at the Costello hit with Vito Gigante but supposedly got spooked and fled and left Gigante to carry out the shooting himself. So I don't see Eboli acting for Costello. But who knows. There was also informer reports of Jimmy Alo being acting boss after Costello's imprisonment in '52-'53, and others that state he was taking over Joe Adonis' position and chosen at some meeting. That seemed to be an underworld rumor as later informants reported that Alo never had the standing to be acting boss in the Genovese, and another informant shortly after the first whom reported of the meeting, was supposedly high ranking, and he reports of being in NY on a trip from Miami and hearing nothing of the supposed "meeting" or Alo's appointment. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?..._AND%20costelloOthers speak of a Joseph Schipani as taking over Adonis' rackets after his deportation. And others speak of members, Tony The Sheik Carillo, Tommy Eboli & Little Davie Petrillo of the Genovese going to Italy to meet with Adonis to appoint a successor to Vito Genovese who was seriously ill at the time. I don't know if I find that likely. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=68896&relPageId=2&search=Joe_Adonis You have to look at who is giving the info in those files. Your first link is a low level Philly informant, who obviously knows little about NY affairs. You're second link about appointing Jimmy Blue Eyes as Doto's replacement? Look at the members of that meeting.......Jimmy Blue eyes, trigger mike coppola, joey rao, meyer lansky, benny levine, tommy milo, lefty clark, and ben novak. Now do you think Lansky, levine, clark, and novak were there to discuss who takes over positions in the Italian mafia? No. Considering the attendees it was obviously just to straighten out affairs in Florida, mainly Miami Beach. That's all true, but you also have to consider the transcripts of the convo between Gyp De Carlo & Anthony "Little Pussy" Russo. That convo also makes it clear that there wasn't a clear cut boss around that time either, it was said to have been Eboli and Catena being on one side, while Miranda, Carillo, Bioardo (I think, I'm not sure), were all vying for control, while Eboli & Pete De Feo & De Carlo's group thought Vito would be getting released, and remained loyal to him. Again, this is as of 62'/'63 though, so I don't know how that would relate to the 70's. And neither De Carlo nor Russo were some low ranking members. And in this convo as well, the issue of Miranda not admiring Vito's choice for boss, Jerry Catena. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...Anthony%20RussoThat right there, says that there were two separate leadership groups at one point. Like I said on the last page, I just don't know if they even knew whom the official boss was, and that goes for the Genovese themselves. Not disputing that Gyp and Pussy weren't high up, they just weren't anywhere near Catena's rank and that is obvious. Catena held more weight than anybody up until his problems with the Jersey SCI and all the problems that cause him. Catena was as stand up as they come. Stayed in jail until the law basically said he would never succumb to the pressure of jail time and would never testify. And those early charts got a lot of guys wrong.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: yatescj7]
#902032
12/17/16 11:47 AM
12/17/16 11:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 102
SonnyD
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 102
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[quote=JC]The Mary Farrell transcripts show that Eboli was never the acting for Vito, Catena was. Eboli was the acting under boss for Catena and Catena left him alone to pretty much run the NY side of the family because he did not want to be bothered with the day to day machinations involving Gambino, Luchesese, etc. that Eboli complained to him about. Catena was possibly the richest gangster ever and wanted to stay boss in part so that he did not have to share his money with anyone other than Genovese. At the end of the day Eboli himself said in the transcripts that Catena told him that when he (Catena) said that something needed to be done it had to be done and Eboli didn't challenge him on that.
As for Lombardo being boss in 1965, in the Mary Farrell transcripts in which Eboli is puffing Lombardo up and telling him that he should be boss, Lombardo said that things had already been decided, which I have always took to mean that leadership was put in place the way that Vito wanted it,and he was not interested in challenging it. As for Catena, he did not retire full time to Florida until after he got out of jail in 1972, as he was in NJ enough of the time in 1969-1970 to get nailed with the subpoena to testify before the NJ commission on crime. He was not one of the many guys who had fled to Florida who the commission in NJ could never get. His refusal to testify is what got him thrown in jail. Maybe it's just me, but his still being in NJ at that time seems to indicate that he was still boss. I don't know why he would have stayed in NJ and not gone to Florida in the late 60's, where he spent the remainder of his life after he got out of jail in 72, if he was not still acting boss. We will never know but that is my thought.
The third guy in the triumvirate was Mike Miranda. It is hard to tell where he ranked in relation to Eboli, but if I remember correctly he was the one sitting at the head of the table, not Eboli, not Gambino, and not Colombo when the police crashed the meeting, which gives you an idea of the power and respect that he had.
As for the 70's, I think that the longest that Catena would have stayed boss was until 72 when he got out and moved to Florida, but I think that his being boss even that long is questionable. I think that after Eboli was killed and Catena retired that Lombardo and Tieri were the two most powerful guys in the family. As for who was boss, who knows. Some Mary Farrell transcripts indicated that the guys in Chicago recognized Tieri as boss, which is backed up by Jimmy Fratriano in his book. Other sources, including Carfaro, seem to indicate that Lombardo was actually #1, but I am not sure that it matters anymore than the question of who was the actual boss, Ricca, Accardo or Giancana, when Giancana seemed to be running things in Chicago. They were both very powerful and respected. They were also both very wealthy and at times very unhealthy, and they may have taken turns running things when one or the other felt up to it, with help from Fat Tony, Little Eli until he got hit, and others.
Just as an aside, I am not sure why so many posters seem to think that Vito Genovese was some mindless idiot. He was chosen by Luciano over all the others, including Costello, Adonis, etc. to be his underboss, and he was the acting boss for Luciano until he himself had to flee to Italy. Even when he was a captain and then underboss to Costello when he came back, he was always more powerful than his title would indicate, much like Carmine Galante was for the Bonannos. Genovese was an original, like Luciano and Bonanno, and he was respected by guys like Ricca and Patriarca. He was cunning and ruthless, which makes me think that it is bs that there was some kind of set up involving other mob guys like Gambino and Lansky to blow up Appalachian and then get him thrown in jail. Based on his history, I would think that if he even got a whiff of a set up by those guys he would have started hitting people left and right, which he was perfectly capable of doing as evidenced by hits that he called in while he was in jail such as Tony Bender. Also, by that point Lansky was not an independent power who worked with the Genovese, he was an associate who worked for the Genovese, and I don't think that he would have taken the risk to set up Genovese, but that is another story. Most likely, I think that if he was set up he was set up by the government alone. Anyway, those are my thoughts, feel free to poke holes.
Those Mary Ferrell transcripts simply show that there were informants reporting multiple things to be true. This Mary Ferrell document, has Catena being acting boss for Frank Costello, Costello appointing him, and guys not being satisfied with the appointment because some felt that Catena didn't go to bat for his men the way Vito Genovese did. As said before in my earlier post, I don't know who came first and who was acting for whom for certain, by any means. But at the very least, Mary Ferrell transcripts give conflicting information. (Credit to HK for first raising my attention by posting this on another forum) Also, according to some informers, Tommy Eboli & a Dominick Squantro, I think that was his name, were both present at the Costello hit with Vito Gigante but supposedly got spooked and fled and left Gigante to carry out the shooting himself. So I don't see Eboli acting for Costello. But who knows. There was also informer reports of Jimmy Alo being acting boss after Costello's imprisonment in '52-'53, and others that state he was taking over Joe Adonis' position and chosen at some meeting. That seemed to be an underworld rumor as later informants reported that Alo never had the standing to be acting boss in the Genovese, and another informant shortly after the first whom reported of the meeting, was supposedly high ranking, and he reports of being in NY on a trip from Miami and hearing nothing of the supposed "meeting" or Alo's appointment. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?..._AND%20costelloOthers speak of a Joseph Schipani as taking over Adonis' rackets after his deportation. And others speak of members, Tony The Sheik Carillo, Tommy Eboli & Little Davie Petrillo of the Genovese going to Italy to meet with Adonis to appoint a successor to Vito Genovese who was seriously ill at the time. I don't know if I find that likely. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=68896&relPageId=2&search=Joe_Adonis You have to look at who is giving the info in those files. Your first link is a low level Philly informant, who obviously knows little about NY affairs. You're second link about appointing Jimmy Blue Eyes as Doto's replacement? Look at the members of that meeting.......Jimmy Blue eyes, trigger mike coppola, joey rao, meyer lansky, benny levine, tommy milo, lefty clark, and ben novak. Now do you think Lansky, levine, clark, and novak were there to discuss who takes over positions in the Italian mafia? No. Considering the attendees it was obviously just to straighten out affairs in Florida, mainly Miami Beach. That's all true, but you also have to consider the transcripts of the convo between Gyp De Carlo & Anthony "Little Pussy" Russo. That convo also makes it clear that there wasn't a clear cut boss around that time either, it was said to have been Eboli and Catena being on one side, while Miranda, Carillo, Bioardo (I think, I'm not sure), were all vying for control, while Eboli & Pete De Feo & De Carlo's group thought Vito would be getting released, and remained loyal to him. Again, this is as of 62'/'63 though, so I don't know how that would relate to the 70's. And neither De Carlo nor Russo were some low ranking members. And in this convo as well, the issue of Miranda not admiring Vito's choice for boss, Jerry Catena. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...Anthony%20RussoThat right there, says that there were two separate leadership groups at one point. Like I said on the last page, I just don't know if they even knew whom the official boss was, and that goes for the Genovese themselves. Not disputing that Gyp and Pussy weren't high up, they just weren't anywhere near Catena's rank and that is obvious. Catena held more weight than anybody up until his problems with the Jersey SCI and all the problems that cause him. Catena was as stand up as they come. Stayed in jail until the law basically said he would never succumb to the pressure of jail time and would never testify. And those early charts got a lot of guys wrong. Catena didn't really have a lot of backing in the Genovese's, his real power and influence and the reason that Vito made him underboss were his links to the Las Vegas money men, Alo and Lansky. He seems to have put a lot of cash in early into the Vegas casinos and was the conduit for the skim for the North Eastern seaboard. Vito Genovese was recorded as saying that the reason he made Catena underboss was because he "Holds the keys to the Vegas casinos." Some reports suggest that Genovese originally appointed Lombardo as underboss. It's worthwhile remembering that Catena was only made late 1940's or early 1950's. Before that he was either an associate of Zwillman's or Morreti's.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: SonnyD]
#902278
12/19/16 11:46 PM
12/19/16 11:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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[quote=SinatraClub][quote=JC]The Mary Farrell transcripts show that Eboli was never the acting for Vito, Catena was. Eboli was the acting under boss for Catena and Catena left him alone to pretty much run the NY side of the family because he did not want to be bothered with the day to day machinations involving Gambino, Luchesese, etc. that Eboli complained to him about. Catena was possibly the richest gangster ever and wanted to stay boss in part so that he did not have to share his money with anyone other than Genovese. At the end of the day Eboli himself said in the transcripts that Catena told him that when he (Catena) said that something needed to be done it had to be done and Eboli didn't challenge him on that.
As for Lombardo being boss in 1965, in the Mary Farrell transcripts in which Eboli is puffing Lombardo up and telling him that he should be boss, Lombardo said that things had already been decided, which I have always took to mean that leadership was put in place the way that Vito wanted it,and he was not interested in challenging it. As for Catena, he did not retire full time to Florida until after he got out of jail in 1972, as he was in NJ enough of the time in 1969-1970 to get nailed with the subpoena to testify before the NJ commission on crime. He was not one of the many guys who had fled to Florida who the commission in NJ could never get. His refusal to testify is what got him thrown in jail. Maybe it's just me, but his still being in NJ at that time seems to indicate that he was still boss. I don't know why he would have stayed in NJ and not gone to Florida in the late 60's, where he spent the remainder of his life after he got out of jail in 72, if he was not still acting boss. We will never know but that is my thought.
The third guy in the triumvirate was Mike Miranda. It is hard to tell where he ranked in relation to Eboli, but if I remember correctly he was the one sitting at the head of the table, not Eboli, not Gambino, and not Colombo when the police crashed the meeting, which gives you an idea of the power and respect that he had.
As for the 70's, I think that the longest that Catena would have stayed boss was until 72 when he got out and moved to Florida, but I think that his being boss even that long is questionable. I think that after Eboli was killed and Catena retired that Lombardo and Tieri were the two most powerful guys in the family. As for who was boss, who knows. Some Mary Farrell transcripts indicated that the guys in Chicago recognized Tieri as boss, which is backed up by Jimmy Fratriano in his book. Other sources, including Carfaro, seem to indicate that Lombardo was actually #1, but I am not sure that it matters anymore than the question of who was the actual boss, Ricca, Accardo or Giancana, when Giancana seemed to be running things in Chicago. They were both very powerful and respected. They were also both very wealthy and at times very unhealthy, and they may have taken turns running things when one or the other felt up to it, with help from Fat Tony, Little Eli until he got hit, and others.
Just as an aside, I am not sure why so many posters seem to think that Vito Genovese was some mindless idiot. He was chosen by Luciano over all the others, including Costello, Adonis, etc. to be his underboss, and he was the acting boss for Luciano until he himself had to flee to Italy. Even when he was a captain and then underboss to Costello when he came back, he was always more powerful than his title would indicate, much like Carmine Galante was for the Bonannos. Genovese was an original, like Luciano and Bonanno, and he was respected by guys like Ricca and Patriarca. He was cunning and ruthless, which makes me think that it is bs that there was some kind of set up involving other mob guys like Gambino and Lansky to blow up Appalachian and then get him thrown in jail. Based on his history, I would think that if he even got a whiff of a set up by those guys he would have started hitting people left and right, which he was perfectly capable of doing as evidenced by hits that he called in while he was in jail such as Tony Bender. Also, by that point Lansky was not an independent power who worked with the Genovese, he was an associate who worked for the Genovese, and I don't think that he would have taken the risk to set up Genovese, but that is another story. Most likely, I think that if he was set up he was set up by the government alone. Anyway, those are my thoughts, feel free to poke holes.
Those Mary Ferrell transcripts simply show that there were informants reporting multiple things to be true. This Mary Ferrell document, has Catena being acting boss for Frank Costello, Costello appointing him, and guys not being satisfied with the appointment because some felt that Catena didn't go to bat for his men the way Vito Genovese did. As said before in my earlier post, I don't know who came first and who was acting for whom for certain, by any means. But at the very least, Mary Ferrell transcripts give conflicting information. (Credit to HK for first raising my attention by posting this on another forum) Also, according to some informers, Tommy Eboli & a Dominick Squantro, I think that was his name, were both present at the Costello hit with Vito Gigante but supposedly got spooked and fled and left Gigante to carry out the shooting himself. So I don't see Eboli acting for Costello. But who knows. There was also informer reports of Jimmy Alo being acting boss after Costello's imprisonment in '52-'53, and others that state he was taking over Joe Adonis' position and chosen at some meeting. That seemed to be an underworld rumor as later informants reported that Alo never had the standing to be acting boss in the Genovese, and another informant shortly after the first whom reported of the meeting, was supposedly high ranking, and he reports of being in NY on a trip from Miami and hearing nothing of the supposed "meeting" or Alo's appointment. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?..._AND%20costelloOthers speak of a Joseph Schipani as taking over Adonis' rackets after his deportation. And others speak of members, Tony The Sheik Carillo, Tommy Eboli & Little Davie Petrillo of the Genovese going to Italy to meet with Adonis to appoint a successor to Vito Genovese who was seriously ill at the time. I don't know if I find that likely. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=68896&relPageId=2&search=Joe_Adonis You have to look at who is giving the info in those files. Your first link is a low level Philly informant, who obviously knows little about NY affairs. You're second link about appointing Jimmy Blue Eyes as Doto's replacement? Look at the members of that meeting.......Jimmy Blue eyes, trigger mike coppola, joey rao, meyer lansky, benny levine, tommy milo, lefty clark, and ben novak. Now do you think Lansky, levine, clark, and novak were there to discuss who takes over positions in the Italian mafia? No. Considering the attendees it was obviously just to straighten out affairs in Florida, mainly Miami Beach. That's all true, but you also have to consider the transcripts of the convo between Gyp De Carlo & Anthony "Little Pussy" Russo. That convo also makes it clear that there wasn't a clear cut boss around that time either, it was said to have been Eboli and Catena being on one side, while Miranda, Carillo, Bioardo (I think, I'm not sure), were all vying for control, while Eboli & Pete De Feo & De Carlo's group thought Vito would be getting released, and remained loyal to him. Again, this is as of 62'/'63 though, so I don't know how that would relate to the 70's. And neither De Carlo nor Russo were some low ranking members. And in this convo as well, the issue of Miranda not admiring Vito's choice for boss, Jerry Catena. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...Anthony%20RussoThat right there, says that there were two separate leadership groups at one point. Like I said on the last page, I just don't know if they even knew whom the official boss was, and that goes for the Genovese themselves. Not disputing that Gyp and Pussy weren't high up, they just weren't anywhere near Catena's rank and that is obvious. Catena held more weight than anybody up until his problems with the Jersey SCI and all the problems that cause him. Catena was as stand up as they come. Stayed in jail until the law basically said he would never succumb to the pressure of jail time and would never testify. And those early charts got a lot of guys wrong. Catena didn't really have a lot of backing in the Genovese's, his real power and influence and the reason that Vito made him underboss were his links to the Las Vegas money men, Alo and Lansky. He seems to have put a lot of cash in early into the Vegas casinos and was the conduit for the skim for the North Eastern seaboard. Vito Genovese was recorded as saying that the reason he made Catena underboss was because he "Holds the keys to the Vegas casinos." Some reports suggest that Genovese originally appointed Lombardo as underboss. It's worthwhile remembering that Catena was only made late 1940's or early 1950's. Before that he was either an associate of Zwillman's or Morreti's. [/quote] I agree and disagree. Catena had the connections to the Casino and the points on them, but he spread that around to certain guys. He wasn't greedy. That being said, he wouldn't make Catena underboss just because of his Vegas connection. He could leave him as capo and still have that. Vito was going away for a while, but he still saw light at the end of the tunnel. He needed somebody to lead who wouldn't try to snatch the throne away like he did to Costello. Those guys respected him.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: Faithful1]
#902381
12/21/16 12:02 AM
12/21/16 12:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
yatescj7
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 360
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According to one informant, Frank Costello appointed Catena as his acting boss in 1956 when he went to jail. So when Genovese appointed him to be underboss Catena already had executive experience. Never heard that before Rick, What is your source of that info? Second question, why would Costello need an acting boss in 1956? Third question, why would Vito trust a guy who had been his rivals acting Boss. Not saying Catena wasn't acting for Costello, Costello had a good relationship with main Genovese Jersey Capo Willie Moore until he was mercy killed in 52.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: Regoparker100]
#902957
12/28/16 04:46 PM
12/28/16 04:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 74
UncleVig
Button
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Button
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 74
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Wasn't he also behind the Carmine Galante hit? This article below says that he not only got the nod from Big Paul, Tony Ducks, Santo Trafficante, Gerry Catena and Neil Dellacroce, but also from Joe Bananas himself in Tucson (Only Persico voted against the hit). To do such a hit, Funzi must have sought the approval from Benny Squint before going on to the Commission to have Galante whacked. http://www.cosanostranews.com/2014/01/funzi-tieri-got-nod-from-bananas.htmlI dont know why they would ask Joe Bonanno since he was forced into retirement but who really knows? I do know Galante was tight with Joe B, in fact the trip they made in the 50s to Sicily was for Carmine to set up the Babania flow from Sicily to Montreal. Right after the Galante Hit and I mean minutes there is a video of Bruno Indelicato showing up at the Ravenite to be congratulated by Neil Dellacroce, His Father Sonny Red and others. This shows me that it was sanctioned and that Gambinos were involved to profit from the murder. Supposedly every Kilo of Babania coming from Sicily was taxed by Galante who controlled the flow. At the time of the hit John Gotti was out of town in Ft. Lauderdale with his crew which was something he did when shit was going down.
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Re: Funzi Tieri
[Re: dsd]
#902990
12/28/16 11:15 PM
12/28/16 11:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
SinatraClub
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,841
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Because like I said , the more that comes out its seeming like he was a capo with a powerful crew, possibly the largest crew within the Bonanno family, which was later split up during his initial prison term, also he was LIVING in Montreal in the early 50s, that could be a big reason why he became the capo of the Montreal guys, not because of any relationship with Bonanno, but simply because of proximity. And he did violate parole in '76, for meeting with known felons, Joe Bonannos name wasnt mentioned as one of these . He couldve been underboss, who knows , but like I said , those guys have dug up informant statements and FBI files which dispute him ever being an underboss. He DEFINITELY was never the official boss of the Bonannos at any point, that much is for sure. For instance , theres an FBI file in which an informant stated that Nicky Glasses Marangello was "capodecina of capodecinas", thats not a rank. In other words Marangello was more influential as a capo than some members whom were ranked above him. That might go to explain Galante's position in the late 50's/60's, a capo whom had more influence than guys who were above his rank. When Rastelli was imprisoned, he left Galante on the street and he was able to seize power simply because influential captains and an underboss lined up behind him, thats how he was able to proclaim himself boss, and simply guys were afraid of him. When both Rastelli & Galante were on the street prior to Rastelli going away in '76, Galante operated as a normal captain, nothing more. When Galante went away in the late 70's, a ruling panel was set up, theres no telling whom set it up, whether it was Rastelli or Galante. This panel consisted of Philly Lucky Giaccone, Michael Mikey Zaffarano and Frank The Hat Lupo, these guys were all initially Galante supporters. Now if we go into the 70s and look at how he consolidated power and was actually allowed to run around making guys and claiming the title of "boss" for the time he did, this was only possible because those same influential captains and the underboss (Marangello) , were all soldiers in Galantes crew during the 50s/60s before he went to prison. At least up to five crews in the 70s could attribute their initial mob rise to Galante, these include DeFillipo , Pollistrino , New Jersey (Zicarelli), Montreal, and possibly the Joe Notaro crew, which was also large and may have also been split up at some point. You can count up to 50 men whom were a part of Galante's crew in the 50s/60s, the period before he went to prison. Thats pretty large and wouldve made him quite the force within the Bonannos. Joe and Bill themselves said Galante was a "group leader", that could just be an easy way to distance themselves from Galante and his drug dealing, murderous ways and Joes way of living up to his self created "Don Corleone"-like image he wanted for himself. But really, theres not much reason or evidence to doubt them. An FBI memo which surfaced in '02, also contained confusion as to what Galante true position was, so because of not truly knowing, they simply gave him the label of underboss. This isnt the first time the FBI was wrong as to whom Joe Bonannos underboss was, they once said that officially it was his uncle John Bonventre. We now know that he was never an underboss and Bonannos underboss from the time he took over, way into the Bananas War was actually John Morales.
Like I said before, those guys on the other forum, do some serious, inspiring research when it comes to succession and whom had the rank of what. And pretty much all of the above information comes from them.
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