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Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898513
11/14/16 03:11 AM
11/14/16 03:11 AM
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OakAsFan Offline
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yates, your links didn't prove your point. Probably because your argument isn't even provable. There's no way to determine who anyone voted for without them saying so, which of course is something they could lie about anyway. All you've determined is that districts that went to Obama previously went to Trump this time around. That doesn't prove that any one single person voted for Obama then Trump.

I'll say it again. This turnout was no statement of any kind. Trump got less votes than the previous two Republican candidates. Did Romney make a statement? Did McCain? Because they got more votes when they ran then Donald Trump did. Trump also lost the popular vote. By 2 million possibly, as they're still counting. Trump's turnout was weak. "low energy", to use his term. lol.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: yatescj7] #898514
11/14/16 03:13 AM
11/14/16 03:13 AM
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Faithful1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: yatescj7
Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
For which specific point, yates? I've made several. Point out a specific argument I've made (that I've declared as fact), and I'll provide my source.

I provided 2 links to back up my statement that you said were false. Provide links to say my statement and the links I have provided are indeed false for starters.


yates, do you seriously expect him to respond to evidence? C'mon, man.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898515
11/14/16 03:16 AM
11/14/16 03:16 AM
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Interesting that Trump is increasing defense spending, considering someone in here was saying Trump was anti-war. The buyer's remorse from anti-war libertarians has to be kicking in about now. I posted his short list for cabinet appointments, full of Wall Street people and Bush cronies. Draining the swamp? He just shoved a plug in the drain, and turned the same murky water back on.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898516
11/14/16 03:19 AM
11/14/16 03:19 AM
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Faithful 1 and Yates will post any irrelevant link and try to pass it off as evidence. I suppose they think by just using the url tags that somehow it puts an end to the argument.

Faithful 1's argument was that the media is liberal. This is an oft repeated myth by the right, never been proven with anything more substantial than anecdotal evidence. A bunch of right wingers watching the NBC Nightly news, hitting pause, then yelling, "Did you hear that? Right there! He said Bush never found the weapons of mass destruction. LIBERAL!". They'll post a link to some article written by one of these guys, and boom, evidence that the media is liberal. Hilarious. Never mind the fact that the media is almost entirely owned and increasingly consolidated by corporations. Not exactly a liberal bunch.

Yates posted evidence that people who voted for Trump previously voted for Obama, even though there is absolutely no way to prove this.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: OakAsFan] #898518
11/14/16 03:32 AM
11/14/16 03:32 AM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
Interesting that Trump is increasing defense spending, considering someone in here was saying Trump was anti-war. The buyer's remorse from anti-war libertarians has to be kicking in about now. I posted his short list for cabinet appointments, full of Wall Street people and Bush cronies. Draining the swamp? He just shoved a plug in the drain, and turned the same murky water back on.


He's always said he wanted to increase defense spending.
Increasing defense spending doesn't necessarily mean you want war, and while I don't think he's "anti war", he's just less pro war than Hillary. She's obviously very much an interventionist, as her record proves and it's why many neo cons were behind her.
True, there's also neo cons coopting Trump's administration too. They're not going to go away that easily. They're hedging their bets, In hopes to influence policy.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898519
11/14/16 03:35 AM
11/14/16 03:35 AM
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So here we have an actual indicator that Trump is certainly for war, by increasing defense spending (talk about a department that's starved for cash!), yet, this doesn't "necessarily" mean his pro war...

But the indicators that Hillary is pro war, such as her record, are enough to make the claim that she's the pro war interventionist between these two!

Got it.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: OakAsFan] #898520
11/14/16 04:17 AM
11/14/16 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
Faithful 1 and Yates will post any irrelevant link and try to pass it off as evidence. I suppose they think by just using the url tags that somehow it puts an end to the argument.

Faithful 1's argument was that the media is liberal. This is an oft repeated myth by the right, never been proven with anything more substantial than anecdotal evidence. A bunch of right wingers watching the NBC Nightly news, hitting pause, then yelling, "Did you hear that? Right there! He said Bush never found the weapons of mass destruction. LIBERAL!". They'll post a link to some article written by one of these guys, and boom, evidence that the media is liberal. Hilarious. Never mind the fact that the media is almost entirely owned and increasingly consolidated by corporations. Not exactly a liberal bunch.

Yates posted evidence that people who voted for Trump previously voted for Obama, even though there is absolutely no way to prove this.


Facts and logic are clearly not your strong point.

Here's Oak's argument for the non-existence of media bias:

1. Media bias does not exist.
2. I have not seen evidence for media bias.
3. Therefore, media bias does not exist.

The hidden assumption is that he hasn't seen media bias because he avoids reading documentation of its existence.

This is like saying
1. China does not exist.
2. I have never been to China.
3. Therefore it doesn't exist.

Beautiful textbook examples of circular reasoning.

SIDENOTE: Trump could build up the military while being anti-war by believing in "peace through strength." It's like the idea that it's better to have the weapons available and not need them rather than needing them and not having them.

Last edited by Faithful1; 11/14/16 04:17 AM.
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898521
11/14/16 04:21 AM
11/14/16 04:21 AM
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Whoa whoa whoa...back up just a second.

You made the claim that the media is liberal. The burden is on YOU to prove that, not on me to disprove it. The only evidence you've presented is in the form of hearsay. Opinions. Opinions by people who believe the media is liberal. This is not evidence of anything. All that's been determined in this discussion is that some people believe the media is liberal, and you're one of them. None of you has a shred of proof that it is.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898522
11/14/16 04:21 AM
11/14/16 04:21 AM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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Wanting to spend more on defense isn't the same as wanting to attack another country. I don't know of any more simple way to put it. He may turn out to be just as bad as Hillary though. Campaign talk is campaign talk.

I'm 100% against an increase in spending on defense. But there is a difference.

Yea Hillary's record is evidence she's an interventionist and is pro-war.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898523
11/14/16 04:23 AM
11/14/16 04:23 AM
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"peace through strength"

One of the classic neocon slogans.

Hillary the neocon might have lost, but neoconservatism clearly didn't, contrary to someone's claims here.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898524
11/14/16 04:26 AM
11/14/16 04:26 AM
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SCG,

Trying to argue that increasing defense spending doesn't equate to being pro war isn't an easy sell, is it? I don't envy you. Must be uncomfortable twisting up like a pretzel.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: OakAsFan] #898525
11/14/16 04:29 AM
11/14/16 04:29 AM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
SCG,

Trying to argue that increasing defense spending doesn't equate to being pro war isn't an easy sell, is it? I don't envy you. Must be uncomfortable twisting up like a pretzel.



It's such a simple concept, I'm sure a 5 year old could understand.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898526
11/14/16 04:31 AM
11/14/16 04:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
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Larry's Bar
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Media usually has a bias agenda. Most of the media having a liberal agenda? I don't buy it.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898527
11/14/16 04:35 AM
11/14/16 04:35 AM
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Ah, come on, SCG. Be a good sport. You spent the last 6 months telling us Hillary was the neo-con in this election. Turns out Trump's short list of cabinet appointments is filled with neo-con Bush cronies, and he's increasing defense spending. When he "bombs the shit out of ISIS" his first day in office, probably resulting in 10 times the civilian casualties of Shock and Awe. What will you say then? He was just testing the weapons?


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: OakAsFan] #898528
11/14/16 04:44 AM
11/14/16 04:44 AM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
Ah, come on, SCG. Be a good sport. You spent the last 6 months telling us Hillary was the neo-con in this election. Turns out Trump's short list of cabinet appointments is filled with neo-con Bush cronies, and he's increasing defense spending. When he "bombs the shit out of ISIS" his first day in office, probably resulting in 10 times the civilian casualties of Shock and Awe. What will you say then? He was just testing the weapons?


None of that is a surprise. He's been talking about bombing ISIS. He does have neo cons around him. None of this is news. But it's very telling he didn't have full support from
The neo cons. Not from the most evil William Kristol and his circle. Not from the Bush family.
Hillary was just the first choice, she's a sure thing for these people. Trump ran as a populist so talking tough on ISIS helped him. He just doesn't sound interested in being enemies with Russia, and neo cons want to be enemies with almost everyone but Isreal.
It's all a matter of degrees.

Increasing defense spending still doesn't necessarily equal war. Very simple concept.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898529
11/14/16 04:58 AM
11/14/16 04:58 AM
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Because defense is an area that's just starved for cash...

It's simple enough to call Hillary a neo-con based on her record, so it's simple enough to call Trump one based on what we know about him too. They're both neocons. Every president for the rest of our lives will be.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898575
11/14/16 03:54 PM
11/14/16 03:54 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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Why do you keep saying that? I never said it was starved for cash. But every bureaucracy will push for more funding. It's the nature of bureaucracy. The military is part of the government. Plus all the companies that profit off making weapons.
It bothers a lot of neo cons that Trump doesn't want to be enemies with Russia. But they are coopting his administration. Something to keep an eye on.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898577
11/14/16 04:03 PM
11/14/16 04:03 PM
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The military is already well funded. The reason it needs additional finding is...voila...so we can continue the meaningless wars we're in now. Perhaps add another one or two. So, the fact that Trump is feeding this beast with additional funding is yet another indication he's as much of a war hawk as anyone, and this is aside from the Bush cronies on his short list for cabinet positions. Anyone who said Trump was an anti-war candidate was either incredibly naive, or playing games.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898579
11/14/16 04:08 PM
11/14/16 04:08 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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Nope. He may well turn out to be for war but increasing spending on defense doesn't mean you're for war. That's logically incorrect. Dumping money into a
bureaucracy Just means you want to feed it. Having a strong defense doesn't mean you have to go and attack others.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898580
11/14/16 04:14 PM
11/14/16 04:14 PM
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The military is well funded. There is no reason for an increase, other than to maintain a war that already has no objective or clear mission, or perhaps even start another. To fund the current war is to be a neo-con, by default. No way around it.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: OakAsFan] #898581
11/14/16 04:24 PM
11/14/16 04:24 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
The military is well funded. There is no reason for an increase,



You only say that because you have no idea how government bureaucracy works.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898582
11/14/16 04:31 PM
11/14/16 04:31 PM
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I could say I haven't seen much evidence that you know how anything in government works, but there's no need to make this personal. You said Trump was less of a neo hawk than Hillary, and aside from talking out of the side of his mouth during the campaign (that you obviously fell for), there's no indication of it. He wants to increase spending to continue Bush's war. His short list for cabinet appointments is covered with neo-con Bush cronies. You were wrong. It's that simple .


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898589
11/14/16 05:59 PM
11/14/16 05:59 PM
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SoCalGangs Offline
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I fell for it so much that I didn't support or vote for him. You see, people like you is why he was elected. Instead of focusing on legitimate reasons as to why he shouldn't be elected, you instead chose to attack him for the most silly reasons to fear monger and cause hysteria. And many people saw right through it. Your side lost credibility.

Secondly, I never believed he was completely anti war. He's just less of an interventionist than Hillary. It's that simple. If Trump suddenly decides to threaten Russia militarily then we can safely say he's becoming as bad as Hillary.

As for increasing defense spending and how you interpret it, there's no way you will ever concede a single thing. Increasing spending doesn't mean" lets attack even more countries." Although it potentially could happen.
I suppose the only good thing about your reaction and of others on the Left is that maybe, just maybe, the anti war Left will suddenly come back alive like they did during The Bush years. We know if Hillary was in office we wouldn't hear a peep from the so called anti war Left as she warmongers for four to eight years straight.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898591
11/14/16 06:09 PM
11/14/16 06:09 PM
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http://loudwire.com/nofxs-fat-wreck-chords-selling-not-my-f-ing-president-shirts/

Quote:

In a recent interview with CBC News, Fat Mike spoke about the fear he had of a Trump presidency. “I get panic attacks nightly. All my friends do too,” Mike said. “Because who had any idea this idiot would get as far as he did? … I think he’s a bigger a-hole [than Bush] but I don’t think he’ll be a worse president because no one takes him seriously. Democrats hate him, Republicans hate him, the military hates him. Just a bunch of racist, sexist rednecks love him.


"Racist rednecks".

This is the kind of stupidity we are dealing with from people opposing Trump's election.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #898598
11/14/16 09:04 PM
11/14/16 09:04 PM
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far, northwest
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come back ivy, and give them all HELL!!



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: OakAsFan] #898599
11/14/16 09:09 PM
11/14/16 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: OakAsFan
Faithful 1 and Yates will post any irrelevant link and try to pass it off as evidence. I suppose they think by just using the url tags that somehow it puts an end to the argument.

Faithful 1's argument was that the media is liberal. This is an oft repeated myth by the right, never been proven with anything more substantial than anecdotal evidence. A bunch of right wingers watching the NBC Nightly news, hitting pause, then yelling, "Did you hear that? Right there! He said Bush never found the weapons of mass destruction. LIBERAL!". They'll post a link to some article written by one of these guys, and boom, evidence that the media is liberal. Hilarious. Never mind the fact that the media is almost entirely owned and increasingly consolidated by corporations. Not exactly a liberal bunch.

Yates posted evidence that people who voted for Trump previously voted for Obama, even though there is absolutely no way to prove this.
My argument was not every single Obama voter voted Trump this year. My argument was that quite a few people who voted for Obama in 2012, voted for Trump in 2016. That is a fact.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: NickyEyes1] #898686
11/16/16 02:50 PM
11/16/16 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
Trump was the right choice. Proud of this country for not letting one of the most corrupt politicians become president.


u mean corrupt like the Kennedys...bush...Reagan? you're proud this country elected a billionaire that hasn't paid taxes n 10yrs, is a total bigot and spews nothing but hate? u want a president that will make other countries wanna blow us off the map

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: SoCalGangs] #900178
11/30/16 07:46 PM
11/30/16 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: SoCalGangs
Well it's been fun to see the establishment's candidate go down in flames and watch the media snobs surprised reaction but to get realistic here even if Trump somehow did half of what he says he will do, our economy will not be much better off.

We're still due for a severe recession, and the timing for that is highly dependent on what the federal reserve decides to do with interest rates. How much influence will Trump have over what the Fed does is unknown. the Fed is supposed to be independent. And even if he does have any influence, there's no telling what he wants, as he's given mixed signals about the Fed and it's low interest rate policy, claiming they're being very political yet he's also said he likes low rates and would take advantage of them. Which indicates that he's ready to increase spending.

He's also promising to increase spending on defense and also domestic type spending to "create jobs" all while promising to cut taxes. Not good for our future.

All the trade deal talk and the protectionism isn't going to fix the the damage done by the Fed and may very well just do more harm. Deporting illegal immigrants will also have very little effect.


http://www.hannity.com/articles/hanpr-election-493995/donald-trump-saves-1000-jobs-15345024/

He is not even president and he saved 1000 jobs. Furthermore, the markets also reacted favorable to Trump.

Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: furio_from_naples] #900183
11/30/16 08:22 PM
11/30/16 08:22 PM
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Green Grove Retirement Communi...
OakAsFan Offline
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OakAsFan  Offline
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Green Grove Retirement Communi...
Trump did not save those jobs. You'll never know that getting your news from places like Hannity, however.


"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: And now will be the Trump-apocalypse ... [Re: Ciment] #900190
11/30/16 08:43 PM
11/30/16 08:43 PM
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S
SoCalGangs Offline
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SoCalGangs  Offline
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Posts: 601
Originally Posted By: Ciment
Originally Posted By: SoCalGangs
Well it's been fun to see the establishment's candidate go down in flames and watch the media snobs surprised reaction but to get realistic here even if Trump somehow did half of what he says he will do, our economy will not be much better off.

We're still due for a severe recession, and the timing for that is highly dependent on what the federal reserve decides to do with interest rates. How much influence will Trump have over what the Fed does is unknown. the Fed is supposed to be independent. And even if he does have any influence, there's no telling what he wants, as he's given mixed signals about the Fed and it's low interest rate policy, claiming they're being very political yet he's also said he likes low rates and would take advantage of them. Which indicates that he's ready to increase spending.

He's also promising to increase spending on defense and also domestic type spending to "create jobs" all while promising to cut taxes. Not good for our future.

All the trade deal talk and the protectionism isn't going to fix the the damage done by the Fed and may very well just do more harm. Deporting illegal immigrants will also have very little effect.


http://www.hannity.com/articles/hanpr-election-493995/donald-trump-saves-1000-jobs-15345024/

He is not even president and he saved 1000 jobs. Furthermore, the markets also reacted favorable to Trump.


Saving jobs and saving the economy are two very different things. Short term markets reactions are irrelevant in the big picture. All the damage done of years of QE from
The Fed has likely done an enormous amount of damage and there's no smooth way out of the hole they've dug us in. It's not Trump's fault, but I see no way he can avoid it. Postpone it like Obama did, maybe. But he isn't fixing it with trade deals. That's for sure.

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