If you're a spokesperson for Donald Trump, you need to do some Olympic-level gymnastics with the truth just to get through the day. But also like Olympic gymnasts, sometimes you fall. That is what we witnessed this morning on CNN when Trump surrogate and conservative wing-nut Katrina Pierson did a complete faceplant trying to blame the war on Afghanistan on President Obama.
While defending Trump's allegedly sarcastic remarks calling Obama the "founder of ISIS," Pierson said in all seriousness, "Remember, we weren't even in Afghanistan by this time [in 2009]. Barack Obama went into Afghanistan, creating another problem."
Bewildered CNN anchor Victor Blackwell asked her to clarify, "You're saying Barack Obama took the country into Afghanistan post-2009?"
"That was Obama's war, yes," Pierson responded.
For those of you who have been living under a rock, United States and British troops entered Afghanistan in late 2001, under the leadership of President George W. Bush. Eight years and two presidential terms before Obama swore the oath of office.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890718 08/13/1610:59 PM08/13/1610:59 PM
Actually, considering who Katrina Pierson is a spokesperson for, she does a far better job than anyone else could probably do. So I hope she's well-paid, because it takes a lot of talent to defend someone like Trump against deserved criticism and maintain a straight face. I mean if I was on CNN and Don Lemon was asking me about something Trump said I'd say, "You're right Don. Trump said something stupid because he's an inarticulate idiot who's ignorant and simply doesn't know how to properly explain things. There's actually a kernel of truth in what he said so let me deal with that..." Then, of course, I'd be fired. It takes someone like Katrina Pierson, who's mastered the art of bifurcation and can continue to do the news shows and keep her cool while not going off on her boss.
Then again, those who work in the Obama administration have to do the same thing:
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890749 08/14/1601:11 PM08/14/1601:11 PM
better to remain silent............... mark twain quote by the way,
gets, you mentioned hitler getting some ideas from the USA now I have read more than once, that most of hitlers ideas came from our founding fathers, who have been revered in U.S. history as models to live by, in spite of the first 15 presidents either owning slaves or wanting to keep them in slavery. what was the mindset of the founding fathers, [ white supremacy] Thomas Jefferson had black children, yet let them remain in slavery. what about the law that read you can go anywhere and get your slave back, it was legal to do so. history taught that these supremists were fathers of our country, some fathers, some models, hitler copied the founding fathers.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890795 08/14/1608:28 PM08/14/1608:28 PM
But for specific policies, it was recent American history that influenced him, such as American Indian reservations/concentration camps, Henry Ford and his anti-Semitic newspaper, etc.
good post faithful, and you are very well informed, however why must history gloss over the founding fathers, when will we [usa] ever come to grips with what they really were. as far as henry ford is concerned he was an avid anti-Semitic, and let us not forget the industrialists from the usa that helped hitler come to power. ford had a plant there, and others the u.s. government even gave millions to those companies who were in Germany. and left when hitler wanted to nationalize them, also i.b. farben was a subsidiary of general motors, their gas was used by the german s.s. and it has been said that the crematoriums had u.s.steel engraved on the side, that have a museum and some are still around. hitler had a lot of help from us and others to gain power.
great links, by the way, keep up the good work.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890799 08/14/1609:11 PM08/14/1609:11 PM
Let's be more discreet about the Founding Fathers. Of the 55 men who at one time or another attended the convention in Philadelphia that summer, only 25 were slave holders. Both Benjamin Franklin and James Wilson, two of the delegates among the eight member Pennsylvania delegation, had domestic slaves which they had freed.
Although many historians subsume such slaveholding luminaries under the heading Founding Fathers (such as Jefferson), those luminaries did not attend the Convention, did not propose Constitutional provisions, did not debate them, and did not vote on them.
Last edited by olivant; 08/14/1609:12 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890813 08/14/1611:11 PM08/14/1611:11 PM
but they all condoned slavery, including franklin, and if any of them had a conscience the dred scott decision would never have happened.
as to the constitution itself, "all men are created equal" while most held slaves, slavery is never mentioned, its as if they wern't considered human. as to your luminaries, were they for or against slavery?
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890817 08/14/1611:44 PM08/14/1611:44 PM
You guys have to remember that almost everyone in the world in the late 1700s believed in slavery. It was normal and part of life. If you're going to hold slavery against the Founders then you might as well say everything that happened before 1865 counts for nothing. That every good idea before 1865 has to be dismissed because most of the world agreed with slavery, or at least before 1808 when Britain ended it.
This is simply anachronistic thinking, judging the past by the way we think today. Then what happens in 100 or 200 years when people in the future don't think like we do today? Maybe they'll think everything we believe in today is wrong and should also be dismissed.
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890818 08/15/1612:39 AM08/15/1612:39 AM
I just don't know why some Board members don't perform some basic research. No, not all of the Founding fathers condoned slavery. Just to name one Founding Father who attended the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin was President of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery. Another is Governeur Morris, a delegate from Pennsylvania. Another is Rodger Sherman, a delegate from Connecticut.
The United States Constitution drafted by the Founding Fathers says nothing about all men are created equal. That phrase is contained in the Declaration of Independence.
Once again: only 25 of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention were slaveholders; As my post above states, 55 delegates attended the Convention. 25 is not even half of 55 let alone most.
The Constitution does not use the words slave or slavery due to one of the compromises between the delegates in order to avoid the slaveholding states delegates leaving the Convention.
There are plenty of luminaries who did not attend the Convention and opposed slavery. Among them, John Adams and Sam Adams
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: olivant]
#890822 08/15/1601:59 AM08/15/1601:59 AM
Well said, olivant. There were always writers that condemned slavery and other inhumane practices. There were people of conscience that spoke out and wrote against injustices for as long as history has been recorded. The "product of their time" excuse for slavers is a cop out. Every slaver throughout history knew there was an element of society that condemned their way of life. They didn't care. In most cases, because of profit. Some just felt it was a necessary evil. If people of their race and/or religion aren't doing it, people of another would, and they could end up being the slaves themselves, so they thought. But they knew it was wrong.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: olivant]
#890827 08/15/1604:01 AM08/15/1604:01 AM
I just don't know why some Board members don't perform some basic research. No, not all of the Founding fathers condoned slavery. Just to name one Founding Father who attended the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin was President of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery. Another is Governeur Morris, a delegate from Pennsylvania. Another is Rodger Sherman, a delegate from Connecticut.
The United States Constitution drafted by the Founding Fathers says nothing about all men are created equal. That phrase is contained in the Declaration of Independence.
Once again: only 25 of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention were slaveholders; As my post above states, 55 delegates attended the Convention. 25 is not even half of 55 let alone most.
The Constitution does not use the words slave or slavery due to one of the compromises between the delegates in order to avoid the slaveholding states delegates leaving the Convention.
There are plenty of luminaries who did not attend the Convention and opposed slavery. Among them, John Adams and Sam Adams
I wasn't agreeing to the belief that all of the Founders believed in slavery or were slaveholders, but challenging those who do believe that about the Founders as somehow negating everything they did or said. In other words, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Nor did I make the simpleton-minded claim that because belief in slavery was common that it somehow justified it. Denouncing anachronistic thinking is not the same as making moral excuses.
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Faithful1]
#890841 08/15/1610:33 AM08/15/1610:33 AM
the point I'm trying to make is that U.S. history is deeply,deeply flawed, and is due for revisionism, lets get away from slavery for the moment, and think about how this nation treated the Indians, taking them off their land, putting them on resevations, taking away their language, their culture, think back to Andrew Jackson and the trail of tears, wounded knee, and many more atrocities, future generations are going to question our interpretation of u.s. history, we cant keep making excuses for all the wrong doing. simply put, we never hold anyone accountable for their actions. then, and now, should not the group who started and continued the viet nam war been held to answer for it, and today should not George bush and his gang answer for the wars they got us into, its always then and now been a pattern. no one has to answer to the people.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: olivant]
#890856 08/15/1602:16 PM08/15/1602:16 PM
My post was in response to Binnie's post, not yours.
And my post was in response to Oak's
But you quoted mine.
Only because he referred to your post, which I actually agree with.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890939 08/16/1601:16 AM08/16/1601:16 AM
We're beyond revision. The whole world is going to shit. What we need is more along the lines of a power down, unplug the power source for fifteen seconds, turn power on, and reboot. I dont know what the hell is going on with Trump, but he is losing momentum. The republican party are fucking themselves. They need to put aside their differences and pull together. They have too much of an internal struggle and will be responsible for their own downfall.
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: blueracing347]
#890943 08/16/1602:08 AM08/16/1602:08 AM
We're beyond revision. The whole world is going to shit. What we need is more along the lines of a power down, unplug the power source for fifteen seconds, turn power on, and reboot. I dont know what the hell is going on with Trump, but he is losing momentum. The republican party are fucking themselves. They need to put aside their differences and pull together. They have too much of an internal struggle and will be responsible for their own downfall.
the complete destruction of the republican party would be a good thing. trying bush, and cheney for involving us in no-win wars would be a good thing, make them accountable for their lying ways,
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890992 08/16/1601:10 PM08/16/1601:10 PM
Roger Ailes, the former Fox News chairman ousted last month over charges of sexual harassment, is advising Donald J. Trump as he begins to prepare for the all-important presidential debates this fall.
Mr. Ailes is aiding Mr. Trump’s team as it turns its attention to the first debate with Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee, on Sept. 26 on Long Island, according to three people briefed on the move, who insisted on anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890993 08/16/1601:17 PM08/16/1601:17 PM
We're beyond revision. The whole world is going to shit. What we need is more along the lines of a power down, unplug the power source for fifteen seconds, turn power on, and reboot. I dont know what the hell is going on with Trump, but he is losing momentum. The republican party are fucking themselves. They need to put aside their differences and pull together. They have too much of an internal struggle and will be responsible for their own downfall.
the complete destruction of the republican party would be a good thing. trying bush, and cheney for involving us in no-win wars would be a good thing, make them accountable for their lying ways,
And the destruction of the Democratic Party would be an even better thing, but I don't see it happening...yet. If we prosecute Bush and Cheney then we'd also have to include all those senators and representatives who voted for the war, including Hillary Clinton.
Last edited by Faithful1; 08/16/1601:22 PM.
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#890996 08/16/1601:34 PM08/16/1601:34 PM
Roger Ailes, the former Fox News chairman ousted last month over charges of sexual harassment, is advising Donald J. Trump as he begins to prepare for the all-important presidential debates this fall.
According to a lot of women who work at Fox News, Roger Ailes is a master debater.
All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: helenwheels]
#891001 08/16/1602:22 PM08/16/1602:22 PM
Roger Ailes, the former Fox News chairman ousted last month over charges of sexual harassment, is advising Donald J. Trump as he begins to prepare for the all-important presidential debates this fall.
According to a lot of women who work at Fox News, Roger Ailes is a master debater.
Indeed! He debated with women over whether they should have sex with him or not.
Last edited by olivant; 08/16/1602:22 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#891003 08/16/1602:38 PM08/16/1602:38 PM
Roger Ailes, the former Fox News chairman ousted last month over charges of sexual harassment, is advising Donald J. Trump as he begins to prepare for the all-important presidential debates this fall.
According to a lot of women who work at Fox News, Roger Ailes is a master debater.
I see what you did there. I hope he kept those master debates behind closed doors.
Re: what if trumps wins the presidency?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#891034 08/16/1606:39 PM08/16/1606:39 PM
If we prosecute Bush and Cheney then we'd also have to include all those senators and representatives who voted for the war, including Hillary Clinton.
The senators and representatives could easily make the case that they were coerced into voting for an Iraq invasion based on untruthful information, that was hastily put together by the president's administration and interest groups which had an agenda since the 1990s that included a military presence in Iraq.
"...the successful annihilation of organized crime's subculture in America would rock the 'legitimate' world's foundation, which would ultimately force fundamental social changes and redistributions of wealth and power in this country. Meyer Lansky's dream was to bond the two worlds together so that one could not survive without the other." - Dan E. Moldea
