Forums21
Topics42,415
Posts1,060,537
Members10,349
|
Most Online911 May 23rd, 2024
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883337
05/13/16 02:01 PM
05/13/16 02:01 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544 Kokomo
Beanshooter
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/2stars.gif)
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
|
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883338
05/13/16 02:07 PM
05/13/16 02:07 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 39
Testa
Young Turks
|
Young Turks
Wiseguy
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 39
|
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: Testa]
#883340
05/13/16 02:19 PM
05/13/16 02:19 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
FireHawk
OP
Made Member
|
OP
Made Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
|
see i always thought it was Luciano with the help of Meyer Lansky that was truly the originator of the mob, but Gambino i hear was influential as well I wanted to get your guys thoughts on this question
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: Regoparker100]
#883368
05/14/16 02:21 AM
05/14/16 02:21 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
FireHawk
OP
Made Member
|
OP
Made Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
|
Without a doubt, it is Luciano who revolutionized the LCN (with the help of Lansky).
Not only did he introduce the Commission as a way to resolve disputes among the families, but he also was instrumental in the development of the National Crime Syndicate and believed that making money was the way to go (and not in turf wars), and had no qualms in working with other ethnic gangs such as with the Jewish mafia and the Irish mob, to name a few. Why do you think Al Capone was more famous than Luciano?
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883381
05/14/16 01:12 PM
05/14/16 01:12 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 155 Downtown NYC
downtown
Made Member
|
Made Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 155
Downtown NYC
|
Frank Costello for sure. There was a time in NYC that no Judge could be appointed without his say so.
wise old owl sat on a oak , the more he heard the less he spoke , the less he spoke the more he heard , wasn't that a wise ole bird.
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883383
05/14/16 02:46 PM
05/14/16 02:46 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 380 In a wide open city
Tony_Pro
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 380
In a wide open city
|
Without a doubt, it is Luciano who revolutionized the LCN (with the help of Lansky).
Not only did he introduce the Commission as a way to resolve disputes among the families, but he also was instrumental in the development of the National Crime Syndicate and believed that making money was the way to go (and not in turf wars), and had no qualms in working with other ethnic gangs such as with the Jewish mafia and the Irish mob, to name a few. Why do you think Al Capone was more famous than Luciano? At the height of his power he certainly was, he was everywhere and very public, giving interviews to nationally-syndicated newspapers, opening soup kitchens for the poor, appearing in movie Newsreels (the TV news of the time), etc. Early mobster movies (like the original Scarface) were transparently based off of him. Imagine if El Chapo today was giving interviews on Fox News or CNN every week, parading around downtown Hollywood and had blockbuster movies based on his life coming out every few months all the while running a huge criminal organization in public. That's how huge Capone's public visibility was at the time. He was very good in manipulating the press and popular culture until the Feds came down on him. Luciano's public profile was rather low until Laguardia started to go after Costello's gambling business and Dewey's prostitution trials in the late '30s. What we know of Luciano and the castellammarese war comes from sources and accounts that were published after World War II, after Luciano had been deported and was in Italy. Newspaper accounts of Luciano's organization in the 1930s make it sound more like well-organized street gang of "hoodlum" racketeers, he earned didn't earn the reputation as the "grandfather of the mafia" until histories started to be published in the 1950-60s and Valachi and Gentile talked. And I've seen no evidence that the Natonal Crime Syndicate was actually anything but another name for what we now know as Cosa Nostra and the Jewish mobsters who operated under them. A lot of these concepts of the late 1930s and 1940s were made up by police organizations who didn't understand the criminal organizations they were dealing with and were doing a lot of guesswork-if they were interested in not taking a bribe that this. All of this was fed to the press who sensationalized it because there was a very competitive newspaper press at the time who were ready to print what lurid and wild story on crime that they could get thier hands on, the truth be damned. There was not a lot of what we would call today "investigative journalism" in to crime in those days. Just a lot of nieghborhood rumors and what the police stated publically.
This life of ours, this is a wonderful life. If you can get through life like this, hey, thats great. But it's very, very unpredictable. There are so many ways you can screw it up.-Paul Castellano (he would know)
"I'm not talking about Italians, I'm talking about criminals."-Joe Valachi
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: Tony_Pro]
#883384
05/14/16 03:46 PM
05/14/16 03:46 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,075
alicecooper
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/1star.gif)
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,075
|
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883387
05/14/16 04:02 PM
05/14/16 04:02 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 59
reginald_denny
Button
|
Button
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 59
|
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: Tony_Pro]
#883404
05/14/16 11:21 PM
05/14/16 11:21 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
FireHawk
OP
Made Member
|
OP
Made Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 112
|
Without a doubt, it is Luciano who revolutionized the LCN (with the help of Lansky).
Not only did he introduce the Commission as a way to resolve disputes among the families, but he also was instrumental in the development of the National Crime Syndicate and believed that making money was the way to go (and not in turf wars), and had no qualms in working with other ethnic gangs such as with the Jewish mafia and the Irish mob, to name a few. Why do you think Al Capone was more famous than Luciano? At the height of his power he certainly was, he was everywhere and very public, giving interviews to nationally-syndicated newspapers, opening soup kitchens for the poor, appearing in movie Newsreels (the TV news of the time), etc. Early mobster movies (like the original Scarface) were transparently based off of him. Imagine if El Chapo today was giving interviews on Fox News or CNN every week, parading around downtown Hollywood and had blockbuster movies based on his life coming out every few months all the while running a huge criminal organization in public. That's how huge Capone's public visibility was at the time. He was very good in manipulating the press and popular culture until the Feds came down on him. Luciano's public profile was rather low until Laguardia started to go after Costello's gambling business and Dewey's prostitution trials in the late '30s. What we know of Luciano and the castellammarese war comes from sources and accounts that were published after World War II, after Luciano had been deported and was in Italy. Newspaper accounts of Luciano's organization in the 1930s make it sound more like well-organized street gang of "hoodlum" racketeers, he earned didn't earn the reputation as the "grandfather of the mafia" until histories started to be published in the 1950-60s and Valachi and Gentile talked. And I've seen no evidence that the Natonal Crime Syndicate was actually anything but another name for what we now know as Cosa Nostra and the Jewish mobsters who operated under them. A lot of these concepts of the late 1930s and 1940s were made up by police organizations who didn't understand the criminal organizations they were dealing with and were doing a lot of guesswork-if they were interested in not taking a bribe that this. All of this was fed to the press who sensationalized it because there was a very competitive newspaper press at the time who were ready to print what lurid and wild story on crime that they could get thier hands on, the truth be damned. There was not a lot of what we would call today "investigative journalism" in to crime in those days. Just a lot of nieghborhood rumors and what the police stated publically. so do you think Capone was probably more eccentric which is why he is probably more well known?
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883410
05/15/16 03:11 AM
05/15/16 03:11 AM
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653 Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/1star.gif)
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
|
I always try to make the point that the Chicago syndicate predates the formation of the Commision, people tend to forget this.... Here is an example of what I mean.... https://books.google.com/books?id=GnCn1u...tor&f=false In this link it alludes to an 8 million dollar stock swindle, 160 million in today's money, right? Luciano's gang was estimated to gross about 12 mil a year, I think 4 mil a year profits to split between like four, five guys I think? I think in today's money it's something like 240-50 mil gross, and like 80 mil net right? Now this is Luciano/Adonis Broadway mob, NOT the Masseria family, not yet.... Now Capones syndicate by like 1926 was said to be grossing 105 million dollars a year. This is like a 3 billion dollar gross. This was FANTASTIC WEALTH for a criminal organization back then. This is why they really did OWN the city. The thing that gets me with Costello, how politically powerful was he really, exactly? Because all my research shows Joe Adonis first, in Brooklyn, and then later Tommy Luchesse were every bit as powerful politically. I even have a theory that Costello and Adonis were kinda silent rivals, and we know Luchesse was jockeying for all kinds of power, so I do think they competed in that same sphere of influence. I understand Costello had a lot of clout, but to me, he couldn't do anything with Dewey, he couldn't do anything with LaGuardia. Where as you got the Chicago machine, the even more potent Pendergast machine ( is this guy forgotten?) corrupt NO governor, and that thing where the Outfit GAVE a guy a Supreme Court spot. I just always found that statement, curious, to say the least, there seems to be a LOT of instances of naked corruption back then' all over... You know who I think deserves an honorable mention? Three fingers Coppola. The structure I see predominant on a global scale today, crime family clans, controlling vast intercontinental drug operations, that the Rizzutos and Gambinos, Ndrangheta families and the strongest of the Naples clans have perfected, the transatlantic mafia family? This setup was started by Three Fingers in like 1926!!-28!! Around in there, this guy was Sollozo.
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883414
05/15/16 05:34 AM
05/15/16 05:34 AM
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653 Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/1star.gif)
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
|
I think Tommy Luchesse is underrated; He supposedly started the knockdown loans in the Garment Center, he opened up JFK, he was for most of the 40s and 50s THE narcotics guy in New York, was a feared killer, VERY politically connected, AND still very low key. And I'm sorry, all due respect to Gambino and Genovese' but they literally woulda never took over if not for Luchesse, he was Carlos mentor, like it seems...
And as big as Capone was in bootlegging George Remus was bigger, which is saying something....
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883424
05/15/16 10:19 AM
05/15/16 10:19 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544 Kokomo
Beanshooter
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/2stars.gif)
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
|
Surprised no one agrees with Anthony Scotto as being someone of extreme influence. Wikipedia writes this about his influence:
"Scotto became one of the most powerful mafiosos in New York due to his powerful political connections. Scotto even became friends with the mob's most feared enemy, U.S. Attorney General Robert Kennedy. In 1972, Scotto used his influence to get his lawyer, Bertram Perkel, appointed as a special counselor to Police Commissioner Patrick V. Murphy. Also in 1972, Scotto was named as a delegate to the Democratic National Convention, but stepped down in protest over the actions of the Convention Credentials Committee. Scotto at one point claimed to have raised millions of dollars for Democratic candidate Hugh Carey's 1974 gubernatorial campaign in New York. Scotto had numerous dealings with Carey over political appointments and labor issues. In 1976, both Scotto and his wife Marion were selected as delegates to the Democratic National Convention.
When Democrat Mario Cuomo ran for mayor of New York in 1977, Scotto donated $50,000 to his campaign. President Jimmy Carter had named Scotto as a possible candidate for the position of U.S. Secretary of Labor. At the same time, Gambino planned to make Scotto president of the entire ILA in the United States; however, this ambition was derailed by criminal charges."
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: Beanshooter]
#883425
05/15/16 11:04 AM
05/15/16 11:04 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
|
Consigliere
![](/ubb/20k.gif)
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
|
Surprised no one agrees with Anthony Scotto as being someone of extreme influence. Wikipedia writes this about his influence:
....................
I really don't think Wikipedia should be considered as a source here.
.
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: SC]
#883429
05/15/16 12:11 PM
05/15/16 12:11 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544 Kokomo
Beanshooter
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/2stars.gif)
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
|
Surprised no one agrees with Anthony Scotto as being someone of extreme influence. Wikipedia writes this about his influence:
....................
I really don't think Wikipedia should be considered as a source here. I agree, but the wikipedia info I listed had footnotes that came from New York Times reporters articles.
Last edited by Beanshooter; 05/15/16 12:25 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883430
05/15/16 12:53 PM
05/15/16 12:53 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 155 Downtown NYC
downtown
Made Member
|
Made Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 155
Downtown NYC
|
Little known about Frank (Chick Wilson) Citrano, he wielded a lot of clout for the Luchesse Family and Three Finger Brown.
wise old owl sat on a oak , the more he heard the less he spoke , the less he spoke the more he heard , wasn't that a wise ole bird.
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: BillyBrizzi]
#883447
05/15/16 05:31 PM
05/15/16 05:31 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 102
SonnyD
Made Member
|
Made Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 102
|
Without a doubt, hands down, Salvatore Lucania aka Charles 'Lucky' Luciano..
Without him, there wouldn't be the framework there is now and the Italian mob would've gone the way of the Irish and Jewish gangs: DEAD Smartest and only real answer. Although... Johnny Torrio allegedly had major input into The Commission set up, along with Lansky, also set the Chicago Outfit up and was responsible for bringing Capone to Chicago.
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883463
05/16/16 02:18 AM
05/16/16 02:18 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/1star.gif)
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
|
talking mainly the American Mob
I figured if i was to ask the question "who is the most influential American gangster" it would be Capone no question.
but since im asking mainly LCN...who would you choose as the most influential figure? It depends on what you really mean by this question... Which mobster was the most influential on the American mafia?, or Which mobster was the most influential on history period. The first question is easy to answer, Lucky Luciano. This because no one made man was responsible for bringing Cosa Nostra to the States, but one single made man was more integral to the transformation of the mafia in the United States than any other. If you are asking the second question, that's a lot more controversial. If the question is expanded to which made man was the most influential on Cosa Nostra world wide, that's even more controversial. Really it might have been Mussolini that drove mafiosi out of Italy into the United States where they then began to affect American culture and commerce...but Mussolini was not made. Salvatore Maranzano figures in here somewhere, because it was he who might have created the American myth of the gentleman gangster versus the gang members they were before his attempt at unification. The gentleman gangster myth affected Hollywood movies and culture with the glorification of gangsterism eventually passing into the world of Hip Hop. This is just theoretical.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883468
05/16/16 04:55 AM
05/16/16 04:55 AM
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653 Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/1star.gif)
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653
Chicago
|
Johnny Torrio for sure, another really underrated guy, the criminal alliance thing really was his brainchild....
The thing with Luciano "creating the idea" for the Commision is a myth. He certainly was the main reason the US mafia adopted it, but according to Nicola Gentile, Mafiosi were conducting organizational meetings and business committees, basically since the mafia was formed in Sicily.
The thing I find goofy about this is, it was actually Maranzano who came up with the structure. He was the one obsessed with Julius Ceaser, and the military and ranks and honor and whatnot right? It's like Luciano went along with it because it was good business at the time... It buttressed his power, whereas before with Masseria and Maranzano it hindered him....
|
|
|
Re: Who is the most influential mobster in history?
[Re: FireHawk]
#883520
05/16/16 05:53 PM
05/16/16 05:53 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 397
Beenaround
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 397
|
Carlo Gambino..Torrio..etc...Any Boss that can pass away of old age or a Heart attack at a older age..
Last edited by Beenaround; 05/16/16 06:00 PM.
|
|
|
|