Read more at: http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-rockford-mob-s-takeover-of-the-negro-policy-racket

Eh. I'm somewhat questioning these past events with Mob influence cities flexing over Policy Kings/Queens (except NYC to some degree). I doubt they had much interaction with the street organizations in that city.

Guys back then were mainly bookies back then as well, the black racketeers operated in the numbers racket mostly. There's documented proofs that when the Italians came in power, like every other ethnic organization before them, if they had the power, they took over and spread their wings so to speak. This stuff is well documented, not just in NY, but in places like Chicago and other midwest cities, Italian organizations put those black groups out of business unless they orchestrated a deal which was beneficial to the both of them, then the black bookies and their crews were allowed to continue to operate, as long as they kicked up. And because the asking price was so high, a lot of guys tried to fight it out and lost.

That's what I questioned about some of these documents and the actuality of those situations. There's so much information focus on the Italian criminal element that it gives the assumption they roll over the Black racketeers. I don't think it was the case and some racketeers didn't kick up at all or most of their profits. I argue that due to those times (Jim Crow) the investigators overlooked many black racketeers and disregard any information coming from their end of the story. In Chicago , Big 12 syndicate had a long run and with stood the Outfit which was at its peak. NYC focus on Queen/Bumpy & Genovese in Harlem but not much info on Bed-Stuy and few other black communities racketeers. Detroit racketeers collaborated and reach an agreement with the local crime family but no takeover per say. The South have Baltimore, DC, Atlanta, & Nashville numbers racket being unexplored in depth.

Good read,do chicago still have a crew in Rockford.

While I agree that not every black numbers operation popped up on the radar, cases such as the Dutch Schultz moving in and taking over the black numbers rackets in Harlem in the 1930s (later taken over from him by the Italians) or the Outfit moving in and taking over the black numbers rackets on the South Side in the 1950s are pretty well documented. When the blacks started trying to move in on Italian numbers rackets in Jersey in the 1960s, Anthony Accetturo and the Luccheses reportedly had several of them killed. Back then, the Mafia had both the political clout and muscle on the street that proved too much for any black operator they set their sights on.

Things would change in later years, eventually with the Mafia in places like Buffalo and Detroit ceding the numbers rackets to black operators. Even in New York 14 of the city's numbers operations were run by blacks by the the 1970s. Part of this was because of change among white bettors the Mafia directly serviced when sports betting began to become more popular than betting on the number.

these guys put out an excellent book and blog about the numbers game in Harlem


book






blog
https://digitalharlemblog.wordpress.com/

Back in those times, the numbers policy game was most popular in Harlem, that's why you only tend to hear about Bumpy & Queen and Schultz and the Luciano/Genovese Family. It simply wasn't as popular in the other boroughs. But Harlem is where it generated the most money, and while the Italians always had numbers operations which generated income in Harlem and other places, like Willie Moretti's operation, and the LaSalle Brothers, none of them were bigger than the Schultz/Terranova operation. And we all know how Schultz operation got so big, with the help of the Italians combined with his syndicate, they took over. Like I said, some black racketeer's made deals, like Johnson and Genovese. The ones that weren't killed existed, but only as "outlaw" banks, meaning they were plugged with the Italians or Jews and hence were considered outlaws, and because of that they weren't allowed participation in the fixed winning combinations, which was controlled by the Italians, and is a large reason why they all got so rich in the numbers game. The Big 12 in Chicago were doing their thing until Sam Giancana came along and demanded everything, and he got it. There's a racketeer whose name I'm forgetting right now, black guy, and he fought Giancana AND the Outfit and after two attempts on his life, in which he lived, Outfit guys were scared to go after him because he developed a reputation of being invincible, he lasted for a few years during this "war" with Giancana & The Outfit, but years later he was killed by Teets Battaglia & Marshall Caifano. And his operations also went to The Outfit.

The Detroit alliance with the black bookies came much later on towards the late 60s/70s. And places you mention like Baltimore, DC, ATL & Nashville, those places NEVER had a large Italian organizational presence in the first place, so it was easier for black racketeers to prosper and profit.

from the digital Harlem site/blog
The game

What was Numbers?

In the 1920s, Numbers gambling was a black-owned and black-run business—one of very few in Harlem—that turned over tens of millions of dollars every year, as roughly one in two of the district’s residents bet with some regularity. It was also illegal.

How was Numbers played?

Individuals wagered on which number between 0 and 999 would turn up as the day’s number. There were other possible ways of betting. The box play, more common in the 1930s, was a way of gambling on all possible combinations of the three digits in a number – not just 896, but also 869, 689, 698, 968, and 986. As well, there was the one number play, where the gambler bet on just one digit which could be either the first, middle or last digit. Similarly, a bolita was a bet on the last two digits of the three digit number. What was particularly ingenious was the way in which daily numbers were randomly generated: each day at 10 am (after 1928, 11.30 am), an employee of the New York Clearing House, a financial institution that facilitated the daily exchanges and settlements of money between the city’s banks, wrote the total of the daily clearances between the member banks and the Federal Reserve Bank credit balance on a chalk board. The daily number was worked out by combining the second and third digits from the bank clearings with the third digit from the Federal Reserve Bank balance. The chance of any number “hitting” was one in one thousand, but anyone who managed to overcome these odds and win, was paid off on their bets, which usually ranged from pennies to a few dollars, at the rate of six hundred to one.

On December 31, 1930, the New York Clearing House stopped publishing the daily numbers, forcing bankers to come up with alternative ways of generating numbers. None had the reputation for being unfixable that the Clearing House numbers had, but the most widely used were the mutuel totals paid out on horse races. The total of the payout for a $1 bet to win and to place of the first three horses in a race was the total for that race. The first digit to the left of the decimal point of the cumulative totals for the first three races, first five races and first seven races were then used sequentially to make up the daily number.

book about Chicago number/policy industry



interview with author

http://www.podcasts.com/the_original_harold_lee_rush/episode/kings_author_nathan_thompson_interview

.

Your speaking of Teddy Roe. The Outfit , after Al Capone sentenced, was trying to takeover then before Giancana met Ed Jones and the Big 12 hold them off. Bronzeville's Numbers Racket was more lucrative than Harlem during the 1930s. By the time Outfit cease most of numbers racket in the early-mid 50s it's earnings have actually decline. There was still independent operators earning good amount unaware to the Outfit. Then came along the 60s that pretty much change the underworld for both Italians & Blacks.

@ Gets
I have that book and it's a must read as I said before. That's how I'm so familiar with Chicago's Bronzeville , Woodlawn, and generally Southside. I wish he did more books on other cities especially Nashville.

Speaking about that book about the Bronzeville/Chicago numbers racket; I have it too, there is an episode I am searching information about:
In 1939 Walter Kelley's 2 lieutenants, Garland Davis and Cornell Roberts, were killed in Hot Springs by hitman Herbert Houston. Their friends retaliated by sending a hit squad after Houston, so he ran into a police station and confessed both murders, so he would be safe in prison from the retaliation. However, the narration of the episode stops here. Does anyone know what happened later? How many years did Houston get or did he recant his confession in court? When I type the names of Herbert Houston, Cornell Roberts and Garland Davis, nothings comes up on google, not even one article.

BF,

think there's going to be a lot more info about Memphis than Nashville. Have you ever read about Robert Church? There's a book called Beale Street Dynasty. I'd put up a link to the book but I'm not sure if SC's post was a cryptic message to me to stop putting up external links.

But book is called Beale Street Dynasty by Preston Lauterbach.
I know Beale Street is synonymous with Blues music, so that area...and by extension that city (Mem) was probably where all the action happened. Robert Church.

Interesting thing that I noticed, and that the author of the book about Chi town numbers said in the interview. He said that there was a distinction between numbers kings versus gangsters. His quote was "there are racketeers and there are gangsters. Racketeer uses the gun to protect what he has/runs....the gangster uses the gun to get what he wants"

I wouldn't have worded it like that, but you could almost make the case that the numbers kings benefited the community when you read about how integral they were in the Black economies of the cities they operated in.

Gets,

I don't understand SC message at all, meant to ask that myself. I would say Nashville is somewhat on par because of this excerpt from a book : https://books.google.com/books?id=1ZR9AA...QIVFFhjCh2FNApq

Nashville's number racket have been active up 2003, by 2004 Tennessee State Lottery.

Yes I read about Robert Church and read from a different book through google sample books. Memphis had a Cartel of corrupt businessmen/politicians, Irish gangsters/racketeers had major influence until some Italians interrupted them, and eventually we get to Black racketeers as well.

The author of Kings reason for making the book is the reason why I started take an interest in Organized Crime as well. So much intel on other groups but barely know any of my own pre 60s. It's still debatable due to the overt discrimination by criminologist & law enforcement.

Funny you bring that book up, I just listened to a podcast interview with the author about that book this week.

Preston LauterbachBeale Street Dynasty: Sex, Song, and the Struggle for the Soul of Memphis

BF,

I think part of the reason why there is a lack of information about Black criminal organizations and especially pre modern era is that many of us feel that there is and has been enough attention paid to the criminal element in our communities. Between actual crime statistics and the visual imagery of Blaxploitation films and later post-nwa "gangster rap"...there is no lack of attention paid to Black criminals.
Black writers,scholars, and academics are not going to use their resources to investigate the Black underworld of yesteryear. Scholars might challenge the omission of Blacks from books/films about wars,political movements,or the sciences but NEVER about criminal enterprises.
I think they believe that their time and talents could be put to better use .

Of the three books I've mentioned in this thread, only the Chicago book is written by a Black author...and he is not from the circle of the usual Black authors(academia). It's a pretty well researched informative book but no "name author" and no big publishing house " means no light or attention to the book.

Tony P,

thanks....that's the podcast that I heard where I first found out about Robert Church.

Guys you ever heard of Casper Holstien? He was a Harlem numbers king pre 20s.
He supposedly was the inspiration for the Valentine Narcisse character on Boardwalk Empire, very active in the black community, financed all kinds of things dealing with progress of blacks in NY.
Never hear boo about him look him up, I'll try to post a link..

Excellent point gets.. Thank for that link

Gets,

Strong point and I agree disappointedly. Due to the large scale violence and economic decline of those communities brought the attention. There's still others like ourselves that an interest in yesteryears and take note even without extensive information ( Jackson history I posted for example).

Your right on point about black authors and its going to be a small number of them due to that segment of the black community being elderly per say. Also, Drugs trafficking have been the lucrative racket since the 70s and more are interested in the Drug Kingpins then Policy Kingpins. Have you read Sean Penn " Black Brothers Inc" ? I use to own it that book but it got lost. It's about the Black Mafia in Philadelphia and he spoken about the ridicule from his academic peers ranging from " Black mafia? Do you mean the Muslim Mob?" to " Blacks don't have organized crime , they have gangs". Funny that last one is the most common view I read on other sites & this forum too.

Cabrini,

You're welcome



BF,

no I had not heard of that book, thanks.

will add it to list of books to purchase..I may head over to the Strand bookstore and look for used copies of the books on my list.

History, even crime history, is about facts. You obviously have the interest, you should carve out some time on weekends and put together articles about the history of the Black underworld.To fill the void, just like the author of the book about Chicago.

Majority of the guys here are VERY well read about gangster/mobster history or have peripheral ties to that world , so most of the comments here are based on hard facts. If someone writes something you disagree with, you can always make a counter argument and back it up with facts.


Speaking of which......I had this article bookmarked a while ago. It's from the Journal of American History. titled..
“We Intend to Run It”: Racial Politics,
Illegal Gambling, and the Rise of
Government Lotteries in the United
States, 1960 –1985


pretty long....lot of what he suggests/concludes is REACHING...but the actual history laid out is interesting.

http://jah.oxfordjournals.org/content/101/1/71.full.pdf

Gets ,

Thank you for the lengthy link , it was fulfilling.

I've actually been carving on a lot time to Black Organized Crime since 09 actually and found quite some information. History is about facts and ACCURACY as well. When you come across conflicting or contradictory information then your research extends. As I stated earlier , there's small details that I overlook and ponder why it's not in other books. Information you've discovered in news articles that wasn't mentioned in OC books/documentaries. Due to the LACK of research by "professional" criminologist/ law enforcement of those yesteryears (outside the major metros), the full scope of the Black Underworld is an enigma. There's no telling how independent or subordinate some Black racketeers operated and endured.

I'm especially interested in the southern Black racketeers as well.

Here is the American Gangster episode about the BM...and the author of "Black Brothers Inc" is one of the people commenting during the episode.


https://vimeo.com/106876875

I heard from a few very credible sources the muslim's in philly back in the early 70's gave LCN nothing !!!

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-06...black-officials

willie adams Baltimore numbers king, according to this article the mob had no power over him either. kind of hard to go in some black areas and muscle.

BF,





New audio mini series/documentary/podcast about Bronzeville numbers rackets

http://podbay.fm/show/1199964972



article from Oct 2016

The 10-part audio series set in 1940s Chicago will begin streaming in January.

Laurence Fishburne and Larenz Tate have joined forces for a new 10-part podcast called Bronzeville, which will begin streaming in January.

Written by Josh Olsen, an original screenplay Oscar nominee for 2005’s A History of Violence, the series is set in the African-American Bronzeville neighborhood of Chicago and follows the lives of players who ruled the numbers games, the illegal lottery that swept through the black community in the 1940s before it was taken over by the mafia.

Fishburne’s Cinema Gypsy Productions and Tate’s TateMen Entertainment have partnered with Audio HQ, the digital audio ad sales company, on the project that is billed as an audio-drama.

Fishburne, Tate and Kc Wayland, who directed the We’re Alive audio series, are directing Bronzeville, with Wayland also serving as producer. Fishburne, a best actor Oscar nominee for 1993’s What’s Love Got to Do With It, and Tate are also part of an extensive voice cast that includes Tika Sumpter, Lance Reddick, Brittany Snow and Mitch Pileggi, among others.

Bronzeville will be available, free of charge, on iTunes, Spotify, TuneIn, Radio One/Interactive One and SoundCloud, with ads from Toyota, Audible, Hennessy, Tracfone, Amex and Quicken Mortgage.

Thanks getthesenets. Listening to the preview its sounds like it could be good. Having it as a podcast in an interesting twist.

You're welcome, DR.

Tomorrow 4/4/17 the next to last episode airs. Gonna download and binge listen this weekend and catch the conclusion next Tuesday.

the podbay link started giving me problems, so I just found different link.

Gets

Thanks for the link.