Good read thanks for posting

Crow is missing the life. I don't think there was ever a hit on him before he flipped .
But this is more proof that he did it for himself or was part of a scam by long John,what comes around goes around i guess.

yearh the crow said in his book he wishes he never flipped that he misses the life. He said he has "no identity" and apparently he is broke now things are not good for the guy. He said he cant find a job or anything he wishes he never flipped. He said it was long john who made him flip. He said the only guys he hates were scarfo simone tommy del and a couple of other people he did not mention. He said he felt bad testifying against alot of these guys





hey serp do you think long john told the crow that scarfo wanted him dead to get back at scarfo or was it the crow chatting shit. Apparently cant remember where i read it but this FBI agent said the crow was terrified that scarfo was going to kill him

Long john I never seen, and the kid I only herd about . The Crow came around and when he did not, he was talked about so it was like he was ..

They were not AC guys and were older so I did not run in there circles . I was a guy that grew up on Georgia ave so was not involved with older dudes unless they hung out here . And they did not ,Crow a little but Phil never had him around .

The people I seen or met were from a hang out type thing ,thats what we did it was disco days and we hung were the ladys were and they were in the disco.

I would not find out who a guy was for years or months, or if a other friend knew who he was.It was not like today with pictures and all that shit.
A guy could tell me he was Joe from Philly and he could be John from N.Y. you did not care or know ,unless you had a reason too.
These guys were still young and not well known out side of there area.
Even the Lucchese and Gambino's guys that came down to party were young then so it was just like meeting a guy from Margate...

What were some of the names of the disco's down there serp?,, not the 500 club ,right?..that was way back,no?..

500 club was more laid back (Sinatra)(Martin) so on .The discos were Little John's , Melody , Casablanca , Chez Paree,Lemon Tree and so many more ,the city is nothing like it was.

The city and surrounding areas had thousands of bars and nightclubs jazz, rock, disco, you can not even believe what it was like and thats not counting the citys around that were jamming Tony Marts, Bay Shores, Mothers ,Dunes, endless and we lucky enough to live it .

The 500 club was more guys like Nick sr. crowd and the little joints they liked ,not what came like a wave in the 70's

"35 years Inside The Philly Mob With George Anastasia"

http://www.phillymag.com/articles/35-years-philly-mob-george-anastasia-2/

Interesting article that I hadn't seen before.

interesting article


geogre antastia loves bruno though i think sometimes he makes him out to be better than he was i mean he sanctioned a hit on a judge. I mean i dont think ligambi pushing in line was a "new breed" its there attitudes it has not changed greg depalma and his crew they would all go to the dentist or for a doctors appointment together they would not make a time they would turn up randomly and walk in front of everyone

donnie brasco talks about the same thing the "swagger" existed long before gotti


The philly mob is defo the most dysfunctional family in the country

no

it can defo be arguared


for example how ralph natale an assoicate could get made by joey merlino a soldier and then ralph made boss of a family

how guys like ron previte got made but without the cermonary

how there was brother on brother

how a low level degnerate gambler can get close to the boss of a family (ligambi)

how a boss joey merlino was planning hjackings and betting into bookies. This is the underboss/boss of the philly mob of the 90s i mean come on it is ridiciclous

they were so dysfunctional joe sodano refused to kick up so he got whacked

the whole scarfo junior thing

how marty angelni a underboss can get beaten up and how a low level hangeron can plan to kill him


how john stanfa even ended up as boss


how joey merlino cannot even operate a bookmaing operation him and ralphie head went bust after a few weeks



how guys like gino delpietro can get whacked in the way he did


how the organization last 20 years is nothing more than a small loansharking and gambling operation with some poker machines

Been talking about this for years, and everyone that don't matter thinks it is a joke including me .

( No one was able to kill him so he is boss )

And many guys say NY did not try and I know different but this is the first time he is out, but he is not on the street, but he will pop up in a bar here and there so guess no one has a horse in that race any longer .

I do not know any mob guy that has been so lucky" and that is just the attempted hits that we know" about.

There are more that are out there in reports and the guys were no push overs , just Skinny getting lucky.

Got to give it to him ,and that's why he gets the respect he gets "why else" ?

All this is true, more or less. The family has had two major internal wars since 1980, dozens of members killed, and it has had the most turncoats.

That said, it's still a formally structured active family. The Borgata gambling bust run by the family involved a good sized operation - $60 million in bets over the course of the investigation. And, according to Anastasia, Ligambi and his partners in the video poker racket could have been taking up to a couple million a year from the machines.

It's all relative of course. The Philadelphia family is a minor league player compared to the NY families. But it's bigger and has a lot more activity than what's left of the mob in Detroit. If you want to talk about a family thats basically a small gambling and loansharking operation, look no further than Detroit.

1. Philly IS the most dysfunctional family.

2. Ligambi a 'celebrity gangster'? What s stupid thing to say following on from Merlino.

3. Thanks for the original article post (re long john). Good read.

What exactly is so dysfunctional about John Stanfa becoming boss? During the time, he was one of the few who was actually considered qualified. His Sicilian roots, his relationship with the Gambino's, his coming up during the Bruno era and outlasting that whole massacre and Scarfo era by default, was all looked at as good indications that he'd be a competent boss and earn the family some money again without the murderous headlines.

The whole size and influence of the detroit mob today is very debatable guys like scott still see it as a viable family with a hierachy and the feds said in that documentary that they still see the detroit mob as a threat that it is big in legit business. Though your right gambling loansharking and legit business is everything there. Then there is people who say it is a small organization with no hiearchy because there has only been not many indicments but i would disagree with that .......






that borgata indictment i agree was big but do you think they inflated the numbers?

it does have a hierarchy though i agree with you there and is a viable family but it is still very dysfunctional

he survived the scarfo era by going to prison

i am not saying he was a bad boss he defo tried to bring the family back after the scarfo mess but it is dysfunctional how a soldier who was supposed to leave the country after being released from prison can end up as boss.

Yes alot worse things have happened which shows that family is dysfunctional but for him to end up as boss was wrong. Now scarfo guys it was crazy how that entire family was nearly wiped out the crow gino lawrence tommy del philip all flipping i mean it was ridiculous



i do think stanfa had an impossible job though he was stuck with an angry family kids of the guys from the 80s then he had all the oldtimers and then loads of his guys were rats john veasy battgelia etc

I suppose it depends on if you want to look at other info in addition to what Scott has said.

Scott's image of the family is one that that has 40-50 members and is extremely hierarchical - a boss, underboss, street boss, consigliere, a few "counselor emeritus," and at least 4 captains.

But does that seem like reality? During the GamTax bust nearly 20 years ago now, the feds had the family at 30 members at most. It was the same in 2001 according to one article. Since then, several members have died. But the family has actually increased in size? How likely is that?

And we see a relatively basic hierarchy in other remaining families outside NY that actually do have 40-50 members and considerable more activity than Detroit. But Detroit has all these layers and insulation? For an organization that, criminally speaking, doesn't much go beyond bookmaking and loansharking?

I'm not sure how you quantify "big in legit business." Obviously there are members who have legit business interests. Some of the higher ups especially.

As much as I give credence to what the feds say, I give even more to what they do. So, sure, they can say the Detroit mob is still a threat. But how much weight I put on that comes down to how much time and resources they put into that threat. And it doesn't seem like much. And, in my opinion, it's because the family today is very small (possibly more than some could imagine), with only some semblance of a hierarchy, and is basically a bookmaking and loansharking operation at this point (along with whatever legit businesses they have).



No, I don't think they inflated the numbers. The $60 million was the amount wagered by bettors over the course of the investigation which was a couple years I think. It's a lot of money but you have to put it in perspective. There's been several gambling busts in NY that dwarf that. And the actual net profit from those wagers is something like 5-10%.

detroit is a mafia reenactment club

You're assuming he was merely a soldier in the regular Mafia related sense. I don't think that may have been the case with Stanfa. He spent time in Sicily & NY before he returned to Philly. He'd had close relations and done things with the Gambinos from Cherry Hill. Antonio Guiffre, Stanfas nephew, its been argued he may have been lower on the overall totem pole of LCN than Stanfa, and he was supposedly held some rank of stature with Provenzano. Theres no telling what Stanfa was doing in NY with the Gambinos before he went back to Philly, but he had the backing of Castellano to be named boss. Gotti supposedly gave him his backing later on as well. In fact, it was Tommaso Gambino who offered his help to Stanfa during the war, by offering to aide Stanfa in recruiting from Sicily. For whatever reason that help never came. But from the Avena wiretaps, it shows Stanfa held some rank and clout within the Sicilian Mafia. As he and Gambino we're recorded talking about how everyone knew who they were in Sicily so they weren't able to move around there with ease.

He was a soldier in the American LCN sense. Thats about it.

you have made a good point

i still disagree with that as the detroit mob has always been very hard to get through. 40-50 made guys i admit is far fetched i dont believe that

guys like scott spend there life researching the mob esp the detroit mob its why i do believe most of what he says. As far as crews go yes four crews but i dont remember him saying there was 40-50 made guys? i think alot of the guys around them are not made


most of those guys are big in legit business even the small guys. Peter "gotti" tocco jack Giacalone driver he has his own construction company he is not even a made guy only 38 then paul corrado has a restuarent jackie the kid has millions tony laPiana sold his company for 50mil.



i do agree though the family is a gamling and loansharking operation in my opinion it is a long way ahead of the smaller less hierarchy familys such as kanas city and buffalo. I would say it has beteen 20-25 active made guys thats it.

It is a small organization but alot of those guys are very wealthy.


i respect your opinnion on this has you have made valid points but i will go with scott and what the feds said. There has been cases the 2006 bust and those two capos busted in 2014 and this irsish guy and his crew who are connected to peter tocco (not peter "gotti" tocco) in 2013 they were running gambling for the detroit mob. Plus that guy got whacked in 2002

plus there was the beef with the bikers last year

I'm confused. How do you consider it dysfunctional that Stanfa ended up as the boss? Because he went to prison and was supposed to leave the country after being released from prison, like you said? Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly does any of that make it dysfunctional? And, how is his prison sentence/possible deportation relevant to any of that?

The family was in complete disarray after the prosecution of Nicky Scarfo and the majority of his top men. The Pennsylvania Crime Commission actually believed/wrote in it's report in one of those years (late 1980's) that it was a strong possibility that the Philadelphia family would be absorbed into either the Gambino or Genovese families at that point. Tony Buck Piccolo was the interim boss - he was offered the title on a full time basis, but he didn't want the troubles or the hassle that came with it. He supported Stanfa being installed as boss; more importantly, Gotti and the Gambino's backed Stanfa into being crowned the new boss in Philadelphia.

If Stanfa didn't have to fight the war with Merlino and his faction he may have ended up as a pretty successful boss with a longer run on the streets. The fighting caused him to be reckless - the simple fact that he needed more men on his side to win the war with Merlino became his ultimate downfall. He ended up bringing in guys that he didn't know enough about and who ultimately couldn't be trusted. On top of that, he was left with junior varsity gangsters that were the remnants of the Scarfo era (ex: Frank Martines). Like I said earlier, the family was decimated pretty badly by the time he inherited the position. He didn't have enough soldiers to fend off the Young Turks, and the guys he ended up bringing in to help him hold on to power actually ended up being the guys who would help to destroy him. In my opinion, Stanfa wasn't given a fair shake. He inherited a family that was basically a small street crew when he took over, and tried to do the best he could to re-build it while fighting a street war at the same time.

The D'Anna's weren't busted in 2014. They've been fighting the same case for a while now. First they plead guilty but given very minimal sentences and fines, which had the legal system claiming the judge in that case was corrupt. So they re-tried them. This is the ongoings of that retrial.

Stanfa was bugged. He was screwed no matter what.

Yea, he was bugged pretty much from the very beginning of his tenure as boss. That was mostly due to Nicky Scarfo, they had already planned to bug guys, Stanfa wasnt the intended target, but they saw all these guys always entering Avena's law offices and wanted to know what was going on. However him being named boss, isnt what made Philly dysfunctional. And King is partly correct, according to Anastasia, Stanfa was on the verge of winning the war. After the highway attempt on Stanfa, in which his son was hit in the face, the Merlino camp got spooked and began to hunker down. They weren't collecting there usual street tax from those they were extorting, they weren't frequenting their normal hangout spots. And they'd gotten word that Stanfa had turned into a completely different animal after that attempt. Stanfa realized this and knew the tide was changing in his favor. He began to then collect street tax and began taking over the Merlino factions street businesses. However he didn't know Battaglia & Bellochi had already been giving info to the feds, as well as Previte. He stopped meeting at Avenas offices, so he was clearly tipped off that the place was bugged, but by then it was already too late, Veasey flipping was the straw that broke the camels back. The feds made their move and locked everyone up and Stanfa was a goner. But Merlino and his guys survived that ordeal by the skin of their teeth. Like people say Merlino is so lucky its uncanny, thats just another reason why. Frank Baldino was the last casualty of that war, and he was a Merlino guy. So he was able to fight off Merlino and his boys, but his foundation was never stable enough for him to last for a large amount of time after he'd won. His nucleus was weak.

SC, what happened to the Lawyer, Arena?

Philly maybe a little dysfunctional or worse but they sure do keep it interesting.

your right they were orginaly indicted on state charges in 2011 and then reindicted in 2013

the state case was a disgrace so what i meant is that they were really indicted in 2014 (i know it was 2013 that was a mistake) that state case was a waste of time and a joke really i dont even consider it a case

the D`anna brothers are disgrace beating up an innocent man because he was expanding his restaurant it is appalling what happened there really is shows they are all scum bags there whole family is fucked now

good article on the case

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-n...a-boss-in-italy

He was charged with racketeering. I think he may have gotten off though, I'm not sure.

http://articles.philly.com/2014-02-06/news/47053356_1_mob-boss-edwin-jacobs-jr-salvatore-avena


he was acquitted on all counts


1996 article by geogre antastia on him

http://articles.philly.com/1996-10-12/news/25664538_1_racketeering-case-mob-capo-john-stanfa