What was the score with this?

Baseless speculation?

Nah, spoken about on here before, and some very knowledgeable posters in regards to Philly & The Westside claim it has some merit. NY certainly weren't happy with how Merlino was running things. Perhaps looking back on it, they would've been more satisfied with Stanfa, Stanfa was a compromise kind of boss, he really had no problem with NY operating in parts of Philly and Jersey as long as he got his. Merlino was a very different matter.

Doesn't surprise me to be honest. Merlino seems like the polar opposite of easy-going that Stanfa was, when it came to dealing with business of the other families.

The only thing I would say is Stanfa was backed by Gambinos and put in power by Gambinos. Supposedly the Genovese were giving Natale/Merlino the go ahead and support during the Stanfa war. Now that last part could be completely off base or over blown, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Genovese supported Merlino/Natale to get Philly back under their influence (for whatever that was worth at that point). But like I said, I have no real factual backup for that, but thought it was a relevant thought. Pete the Crumb Caprio did in fact testify that the Genovese and Gambinos were conspiring with him to kill Borgesi, Mazzone, and Ligambi, which we've also discussed in recent threads.

Stanfa was a puppet boss, before he camed to philliy he was a new york guy, merlino is philly nostra through and through and those south philly guys don't like outsiders

Stanfa wasn't a NY guy, he was a straight Sicilian who had ties to Carlo & his family that way. He migrated straight to Philadelphia and was plugged into Bruno's mob, through his friendship with Carlo, and Bruno actually being in a sense, Carlo's "puppet boss", if thats the term you'd like to use. Stanfa was Philly, but he was also Old School LCN, and to him, that came first. The only time he wasn't in Philadelphia or a close vicinity, like South Jersey, was when he was in prison for lying about the Bruno murder, which he was involved in. After that whole Scarfo thing fell apart, The Commission placed him in his position, not just the Gambino's. In fact, the Gambino's weren't even the power of the Commission at the time, Castellano had been murdered, Gotti was indicted, Chin was the power, he had to give his blessing for Stanfa to even be the boss. Those business dealings I was talking about, little of them benefitted the Gambino's. It was the Columbo's, Genovese, and remnants of the Bufalino crime group that Stanfa was mostly in contact with during his time at the top.

I don't find it likely Genovese supported the Merlino/Natale shit, because Natale wasn't even made, and the common thought at the time was "Merlino is just a soldier, himself, who the hell he to make anyone, let alone install that person as boss immediately after he's made". NY specifically looked at that whole situation as a clusterfuck of epic proportion.

I think that's actually true. From what I recall - and I'm basically summarizing this from what Pogo said on this subject on another board some time ago - the Genovese actually did support the Natale/Merlino faction. The reason for it was the "cold war" power struggle they had (and have always had) with the Gambinos. This latest was the result of the fallout from the Castellano hit. The Gambinos backed Stanfa so the Genovese backed Natale/Merlino. Much like the when the Gambinos backed the Orena faction in the Colombo war so the Genovese backed the Persico faction. The Genovese also backed Casso in his plot to kill Junior Gotti and Nick Corozzo as well as the earlier hits he had carried out like Bobby Borriello, Eddie Lino and Frank DeCicco.

And, as you said, later on there were Genovese and Gambino members plotting with Caprio to take out Ligambi, Mazzone, and Borgesi in order to expand their video poker operations into the Philadelphia family's territory.

Isn't there like a rule that a non-American cannot become boss of an American Cosa Nostra family? Stanfa was put into power in end of 1989/early 1990 by Gotti and Leonetti even says Gotti liked Scarfo and wanted to support him, but his priority was to appease the Sicilan faction of the Gambinos who were pushing for Stanfa whom he was a relative and/or close friend of. Gotti was most certainly powerful to put him in place when Stanfa took the reigns and wasn't even a arrested until literally then end of 1990 (Dec. 1990). On the flip side, @Sinatra your point on Natale and Merlino is very much valid....

Stanfa was in NY for some time before coming here...

Its hard to get solid story on this.Ive heard what people have said about Genovese wanting to hit them and I heard they backed Joey because when it switched from Scarfo to Stanfa the control shifted from Chin to Gotti.When Stanfa goes away Genovese have control again and Skinny I am sure wasn't sharing or giving respect the Genovese wanted so they Talk to Caprio about taking the whole Philly admin out. That's what seems most likely to me but the Genovese and Joeys guys are not the type to talk so we only get story from guys trying to save their own asses.

If chin said for joey to go, he would have went along time ago, sorry, chins people wernt a bunch of flunkys who where in the mob for a week to later turn rat like stanfas hitters.

On a side note, how does Merlino have a relationship with the Luchese New Jersey Perna's? There's definitely a relationship there just don't know how or why? He meet them in jail or something else? Anything or any stories would be of interest. Adds an interesting element with Nicky Jr and Sr for that matter because of their Luchesse ties and membership etc.

I don't think it's that easy to walk into Philly and take out Merlino. He had plenty of shooters around him, especially in the 90s. It was probably not worth the trouble.

I agree but they also wouldn't go thru with a series of hits like that unless they know they knew for sure they could pull it off. I would guess that they were in progress of setting it up when Caprio went down. Joey had a few attempts on his life that everyone involved was aware of. He was being careful how he moved,kept public eye on himself and was usually surrounded by half dozen to dozen guys if he was out out.They were most certainly capable of hitting Joey or any of them, but its never easier playing on the road then it is at home. The Genovese are called Ivy Leaugue for a reason. Wasn't an easy hit and they would have planned out to a t to ensure they got what they wanted. If they felt the could do it quick, quiet, and takeover no prob itd be done. IMHO they felt like that wasn't case and when they lost Crumb from plot, they abandoned it. But that's just my opinion from info i have read.

The guy they call the Greek from the WestSide wanted the top guys in Philly hit.He ran out of time on the street. One time cos of LE the other time he died.
It is in a wire tap or from a rat but it is fact.But the feds have it.

Same with the Gambino's ,I wish I was like some of the guys on here ,I go from what I have herd . I do not have the know how or the patience to research .
I would not repeat it if I did not hear it from a good source.

Pernas were popped in earlier 2000s on gambling , not talked about much

Possible they bumped into Merlino when he was held in north jerz- jail , lawyers , common friends etc and he was here for awhile

Either way both had a common feeling on NS Jr - to the core

My buddy from there said no to his knowledge but he only knew of skinny in there, Pernas a big name to some but not most . He wasn't a prisoner btw, everyone and I mean everyone knew of him( skinny ) , he was never touched , then again the fed prisoners kept separate

Interesting thought if minds think alike as Pernas IMO took over in this area at least, for awhile now , C T just couldn't handle it and that's no disrespect to him, tough job . Regardless my feeling today , is P and T will get along , too much at stake and money is what it all about and losing envelopes is very possible in a vacuum scenario , and the playing field is more even at the moment . T will get going soon . Big J. P. no joke and a loss IMO, he was made early for a reason, smart, brutally tough and CN to bone, not someone to be Fd with . Appears to have learned lessons about being out and also talking , you know young kid stuff that way more common than you think

I know he just got nailed but kudos to guy(s) that ran things , in all honesty a decent run in today's world, huge books, not middle income $ here. Powerhouse when all back together , not hard to see and current leaders appear to be long term smart decision makers but they gone for 5 at least probably and will do it as if nothing happened .

Regardless always possibility of some tension but that won't last IMO , NY way too strong now , their word is it . Things are not bad and small time feelings will be pushed aside .

I'm probably wrong tho on almost everything , just some food for thought for those on the can reading this lol

Don't forget scoops too PHL , huge book in same exact area, wish I knew specifics of who was/ is bank , could be someone we have never heard of , these guys king / inventors of using other people's $ to get rich . Remember Big Paul did some of his shy legally , and that practice has only been preached and bought ( at the very least lol ) . We all know business that close could lead to good , bad or ulterior thoughts and I've always said they have been that silent steady money making cousin to the family and friends . Way more envelopes then problems IMO . These guys smart and know where the heat is , that's their living . NJ a joke , nothing centralized , and that's keeping it G rated , several here know much much more than me .

Again I could be 100% wrong

Gigante was locked up in 96 97 I think that guy tino the Greek who was big in the 90tys after doing 15 yrs probaly was the guy trying to kill merlino even read he call merlino to NY and merlino said I'm all set.

Is Scoops still the active skipper of North Jersey Philly LCN or did he hand that crew over to Big Lou (If Big Lou is even out of the can yet?)

The reason I ask is that I have not seen Scoops around his usual haunts in the Newark Suburbs that I used to see him at, but then again I've been either in the city or at the shore 99.9% of the time lately

True and got very sick after and passed.
I don't know for sure but it sure sounds like Scarfo got in touch with Manna and Manna made a call to the Greek..

Who knows " but it happened..

I know Big lou is out but ive never heard of him taking over scoops crew. I heard he will eventually take over for scoops and that he takes care of everything for scoops on day to day situations but Scoops is still official capo

I don't know much about Philly, Serp. That's your neck of the woods. But I like to think I'm pretty well versed about the Westside, especially that time period (the late '70s through the '97 when Vince went away, and a little bit about today).

Anyway, I've developed a passing interest in Merlino for the sole reason that when we're in Florida, he lives close by. What I'm driving at is, if Tino, Manna AND Vince wanted Skinny dead, he'd be dead. Period.

Oh, just for the record. Vince did get very sick in prison, but he didn't die until late '05 if I remember correctly. He was inside for a full nine years (including arraignment, denial of a bail package, etc.).

I agree PB and for the life of me I really can not get it.
If there is a researcher here that runs across what I am speaking of please post.

It was told to me a long time ago,and the person was very reliable and all these years I have never gave it a second thought.

I know that if the Westside wanted him out he would be out.

But I know the document is somewhere .

I can not go into who told me other then he him self is in that field .

The post that I post of how it possibly went down was just that ,no facts .

But the document is out there and I have no clue how you guys get that shit.

Like I said if someone will look into it ,I did not hear anything about the Chin,it was only that guy the Greek .He came out of the joint then he got pinched again ,went away,came out tried again and died. Thats all I know.

I added the only reason he may do it was a favor for Manna through Scarfo . But just a thought .Unless there was real money involved.

It must of been around the time he was fighting with Stanfa and no one would of cared if Skinny got hit. 91-93 again guessing.

Merlino is a hard man to kill, its not as easy as you might think...no one in merlinos inner circle wil turn on him or set him up but enjoy your fantasies

I would think that he has had 10 lives..

Serp, do you remember the people that said if merlino steps one foot in phillie the narducci's will kill him?

The days of new york calling shots in philly is over

I thought it was Tino the Blade that wanted to kill Joey.

I doubt anyone is looking to kill him in this day and age anyway. Rats are walking around out in the open and not getting hit, so I can't see them taking out such a high profile guy anyway.

Serp and I were discussing events that happened over 25 years ago. In the late '80s, early '90s, if Tino, Manna and Chin wanted someone dead, they usually ended up dead. But people went away (Manna first), the life changed beyond belief, and Merlino does seem to have nine lives. I'll give him that.