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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#849578
07/03/15 11:19 AM
07/03/15 11:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
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That's what made the choice he made with Vic and Gas that much more of a head scratcher. Amazing how different the landscape could be. Luongo head of the Lukes and Donnie Brasco stays on record with Jilly and Sonny Black takes the reigns of the Bonanno's. Not fat rat joe. Both small things at the time. But changed LCN irreparably. You know I generally don't do "what ifs," Sonny. But you're my pal, so I'll make an exception. Also, the mid-'80's were full of such "what ifs." But to me, the biggest one was Fat Tony taking the fall for Chin in the Commission case. Because if Chin didn't have him as a front boss, and he went to jail instead of Tony, Tony goes to jail a few years later anyway because he had a rat right next to him in Cafaro. It would have been devastating to the Westside, and we'd probably discuss them today as if they were just another Mob family, instead of the Cream of the Crop. They're undoubtedly the best and the brightest. But when you're good, you also tend to get lucky (in all walks of life).
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#849584
07/03/15 11:30 AM
07/03/15 11:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
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Amen to that PB.
Luck is the residue of design. Yup. There's an American saying (and I know that English is your first language, I'm not an idiot ![lol lol](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/lol.gif) ). And you've probably heard it anyway. Here it is: "Nothing succeeds like success." Meaning that when you're that far out front, you tend to get breaks that the perennial loser doesn't get. Or, as you said, luck is the residue of design.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: pizzaboy]
#849610
07/03/15 12:40 PM
07/03/15 12:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,028
TommyGambino
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Amen to that PB.
Luck is the residue of design. Yup. There's an American saying (and I know that English is your first language, I'm not an idiot ![lol lol](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/lol.gif) ). And you've probably heard it anyway. Here it is: "Nothing succeeds like success." Meaning that when you're that far out front, you tend to get breaks that the perennial loser doesn't get. Or, as you said, luck is the residue of design. Are they really that far in front?
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: TommyGambino]
#849614
07/03/15 12:51 PM
07/03/15 12:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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Are they really that far in front? I was speaking in general terms, Tommy. Not necessarily germane to the Mafia. But if you're asking me if there's a somewhat sizeable gap between the Genovese and Gambino families today, I would have to say yes because of the Carpenters, The ILA, and the Waterfront. Plus, the Genoveses been able to able to make some inroads into some old locals that were so so off limits ten years ago that it was unthinkable. I wouldn't have taken 100 to 1 odds on such things happening (not that it will ever be what it once was). The Gambinos have regrouped, they have a great guy at the helm, and they're in the best shape they've been in since the '80s. But they're always at risk of being one International drug bust away from dropping a notch. In short, they're not #1 and #1A. They're definitely #1 and #2.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: pizzaboy]
#849615
07/03/15 01:00 PM
07/03/15 01:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,028
TommyGambino
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Are they really that far in front? I was speaking in general terms, Tommy. Not necessarily germane to the Mafia. But if you're asking me if there's a somewhat sizeable gap between the Genovese and Gambino families today, I would have to say yes because of the Carpenters, The ILA, and the Waterfront. Plus, the Genoveses been able to able to make some inroads into some old locals that were so so off limits ten years ago that it was unthinkable. I wouldn't have taken 100 to 1 odds on such things happening (not that it will ever be what it once was). The Gambinos have regrouped, they have a great guy at the helm, and they're in the best shape they've been in since the '80s. But they're always at risk of being one International drug bust away from dropping a notch. In short, they're not #1 and #1A. They're definitely #1 and #2. Oh, I'm not saying it's really close between the two, just that the gap has been closed in the last 5 years, the Genovese were absolutely miles ahead in the 90's/early 2000's. You're right, these international drug busts will hurt the Gambino's, they were lucky with the recent big drug bust, just a matter of time before the 18th ave crew go down on heroin/coke charges. just my opinion. Westside tend to steer clear of dope, they have high end weed guys like Sally Ko but doubt any big dope guys, the admin will have laid down the rules.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: Flushing]
#849684
07/03/15 05:29 PM
07/03/15 05:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885 Hudson County NJ
DB
Underboss
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Hudson County NJ
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Good info , i won't get into the 1 or 2 thing as I'm not qualified
But I will say one family has jersey on lock down more or less and things Have not improved that much from a corruption standpoint that we have seen in NYC , just way less $ , oversight and media attention that even a city like jersey city can keep with , plus residents just don't care so it's not high on a local politicians priority list .
Just a lot of little towns right outside NYC with people still looking to get $. Violence is way down obviously but other things not so much , mainly $
Just back on drug thing , LE has done a tremendous effort cutting down the pill thing last 1-3 years but in the not too distant past a few families made millions on it , several times with major busts LE didn't have enough of a link and the media made no mention but some were moving tens of thousands and even some close to hundreds a month, $3-5 a pop getting back very reasonable to assume . No one associated CN with past pill thing but a few of the fams made multi multi millions ( rarely published ) with it , anongst others as it wasn't just them but they were in the middle . It's not a shock NE NJ and SI were often mentioned as epidemic areas . CN still has a presence in a few areas and in this one the strongest got a nice taste.
Long story short I guess it was just managed better and attention wasnt quite there but I really don't know , except some made a tremendous amount of $
That's all i got lol
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: Flushing]
#849717
07/03/15 11:04 PM
07/03/15 11:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Posts: 8,534
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I agree with the Genovese being #1 and the Gambinos being #2. But they're a strong #2. I believe it's always been that way, even during the years (mainly the 1970's and 1980's) that so many declared the Gambinos as the top family. The Gambinos haven't been as successful as the Genovese as retaining their influence in the unions, though they still do have some, but they still have major muscle in the blue collar rackets of gambling, loansharking, extortion, and drug trafficking. A 2005 article sort of touched on this - BIZ BOOMS FOR GAMBINOS’ NEW GODBROTHERS By Murray WeissSeptember 29, 2005 The Gambino crime family didn’t go away when John “Junior” Gotti was put away – they lowered their profile, then regrouped and re-energized under the iron-fisted leadership of a pair of no-nonsense brothers from Howard Beach, Nicholas and Anthony Corozzo. Returning to their hardcore roots, the 200-member Gambino mob has been stuffing its pockets from a trifecta of time-honored rackets – gambling, extortion and labor corruption – that once made them a billion-dollar-a-year powerhouse before Dapper Don John Gotti’s lust for the media glare brought so much FBI heat, the crime family nearly had a meltdown. “They were shaken and wounded . . . but the Gambinos still remain a very, very active family, neck-and-neck with the Genoveses,” a top mob-hunter said yesterday. During the past 15 years, a celebrated parade of Gambino bosses – most notably John the elder, his three brothers, Gene, Peter, Richard V., and Gotti’s son John “Junior” – have been sent to prison by local, state and federal authorities, especially the Brooklyn U.S. Attorney’s Office. “That was John – he put everyone in the spotlight,” another mob expert said. The heat resulted in the convictions of a laundry list of capos and top lieutenants – men such as Frank Locascio, his son, Salvatore, Richard Martino, Primo Casserino, Andrew Campos, Thomas “Huck” Carbonaro, Anthony “Sonny” Ciccone and even the Corozzos themselves. The crackdown helped the feds remove the Gambinos’ lucrative stranglehold on a number of businesses such as construction industries, labor unions and the waterfront, along with various devious scams on Wall Street and the Internet. One expert, the renowned ex-NYPD Detective Sgt. Joseph Coffey, said the Gambinos were thrown into “chaos” by law enforcement – but now they’re back. “They were a viable criminal enterprise before John Gotti and they are a viable criminal enterprise now,” said James Margolin, the FBI’s spokesman in New York. Along with the Corozzos, who came out of prison in the past year, several other Gambino powers have re-emerged, including Danny Marino and Anthony “The Genius” Megale, federal officials say. The Gambinos’ long-established moneymaking rackets include rake-offs from nightclubs and strip joints, prostitution, pornography and gambling all along the East Coast from Miami to Montreal. “That’s where they’re making their money,” one source said. “It’s all about making money,” a federal official said. “That’s what La Cosa Nostra families do.” And what are the prospects that another Gotti can take control of the Gambinos? “Fuhgeddaboutit,” one source said. The Corozzos do not like the Gottis. http://nypost.com/2005/09/29/biz-booms-for-gambinos-new-godbrothers/As for the other three NY families, some may disagree but I don't think the Luccheses are that far apart from the Colombos and Bonannos. The Luccheses are #3 but it's a distant #3 and they're much closer to the other two smaller families than they are the Genovese or Gambinos.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: Vknicks]
#849730
07/04/15 12:21 AM
07/04/15 12:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
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as far as them being a distant number 3 the Lucchese it depends on geography, I don't know much about OC outside of the Bronx but what i know is in the Bronx they are very close to the Genovese I agree one hundred percent. True but I'm speaking in general. The Gambinos have a bigger presence in Queens and Staten Island than the Genovese but that doesn't make them stronger overall. However, I also agree with this. The Lucchese's strength in the Bronx and Westchester (and, at one time, East Harlem) is incredibly disproportionate to their overall power (The Tri-State area as a whole). It's always been that way, as I said, going back to the old East Harlem days. But having said that, again, you don't want to be fucking with the Luccheses in the Bronx or Westchester. And a very large part of that is because they're tied at the hip to the Westside in those areas.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: TommyGambino]
#849734
07/04/15 05:09 AM
07/04/15 05:09 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653 Chicago
CabriniGreen
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Posts: 1,653
Chicago
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I kind of agree but keep this in mind; That cuban guy, Garcia, said that the Gambinos had like 5 whole crews that the feds knew nothing about, Also, the Gambinos might have been weaker in the late 90s, but if u have ONE crew like Locasios that steals over 800 million,how down were they really? And u got Cali with deep connects to both sicily And ndrangeta apparently, So it seems the Genovese and Luchesse are more semi-legit hence more stable, I think the Gambinos may have bigger earning potential, like liquid, I dont know; After that bust with the Bonnanos, it had me thinking Cali was taking the position that Rizzuto had, but with the Calabrians instead of the sicilians... thoughts?
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: pizzaboy]
#849740
07/04/15 06:26 AM
07/04/15 06:26 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,653 Chicago
CabriniGreen
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Chicago
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This is something ive never understood either, why he picked those two; Let me ask this, Iknow the bronx was very powerful, but was it a situation like Castellano,Costello, Bontade ect. where they were so successful for so long that thier aggresiveness was a little stunted? I say this cause its been noted how close the WS AND Luchesse are, it seems tony ducks and the like suffered from the same thing as the genovese in the 40s and 50s, they focused on business over power; Could it be there was a rift in the bronx faction? Was that it? Any thoughts? (This one I take a personal interest in, as my family had a kind of wierd similar situation...)
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#849748
07/04/15 09:43 AM
07/04/15 09:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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I kind of agree but keep this in mind; That cuban guy, Garcia, said that the Gambinos had like 5 whole crews that the feds knew nothing about, Also, the Gambinos might have been weaker in the late 90s, but if u have ONE crew like Locasios that steals over 800 million,how down were they really? And u got Cali with deep connects to both sicily And ndrangeta apparently, So it seems the Genovese and Luchesse are more semi-legit hence more stable, I think the Gambinos may have bigger earning potential, like liquid, I dont know; After that bust with the Bonnanos, it had me thinking Cali was taking the position that Rizzuto had, but with the Calabrians instead of the sicilians... thoughts? The Locascio crew certainly made a lot of money. But generally speaking, the Genovese make more money. Even during the 1970s and 1980s when the Gambinos were (wrongly) said to be the largest and most powerful, the Genovese were said to be richer.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#849771
07/04/15 01:33 PM
07/04/15 01:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
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Could it be there was a rift in the bronx faction? Was that it? No, not in the slightest. That crew (pre Casso-Amuso, say, 1985) was more settled into the Bronx than Harlem by that time. Unlike the Westside who still had their feet on 116th because of Tony and the Palma Boys. And, if anything, it only made them closer because they ended up settling into the Bronx and nearby Mount Vernon (although the Mount Vernon crew is pretty much defunct now). Mikey Salerno was the Bronx Lucchese crew chief, and he was traditionally blue collar. He had numbers stores all over the Northeast Bronx, and he had plenty of supporters. They were all close to him---Buddy, Hooks, Blues Eyes, Joey G, Joey D, TJ, Stevie, Sally Bo, and virtually every soldier with Mikey ended up an acting skipper or higher at some point down the road, and that speaks volumes. There was no fragmentation at all. And I know that much is made of Stevie being "White Collar," and he is. BUT....people who say that didn't know him thirty years ago. He had his headquarters above his restaurant on Bronx River Road in Yonkers, and the guys around him back then were as tough as nails, a few of them outright crazy cowboys. Even after Buddy got hit, they followed the rules. When those scumbags called for Salerno to get hit (and DISCRACEFULLY lied about him being a rat), they followed the rules and ate it. That crew was solid, and there was no schism between White Collar/Blue Collar or Harlem/Bronx/Westchester whatsoever. When guys they knew got hit and the order came from the top, they took it because they were CN through and through (unlike Amuso and Casso who broke virtually every rule in the book). And as the old saying goes, the proof is in the pudding. It's been close to thirty years. Look at the surviving Bronx crew members as opposed to the surviving Amuso/Casso loyalists. Comparing their lifestyles is like comparing Donald Trump to a homeless person. Sorry I went off on a tangent, but Salerno's death, coupled with knowing some of his loyalists most of my life, always sets me off a bit. But to keep it short this time: No, there was no rift whatsoever, they weren't complacent, and they certainly weren't afraid. They had plenty of hitters. But they knew how to follow the rules, and that's exactly what they did. In the short run, they lost some great guys. But, in the long run, it's night and day. The Bronx/Westchester faction (coupled with the old Prince Street crew in construction) ended up with all of the big money.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: pizzaboy]
#849801
07/04/15 06:42 PM
07/04/15 06:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
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When guys they knew got hit and the order came from the top, they took it because they were CN through and through (unlike Amuso and Casso who broke virtually every rule in the book).
But isn't it a little contradictory? I mean, if they were Cosa Nostra through and through by following its rules while Amuso and Casso broke every rule, shouldn't they have whacked Amuso and Casso following this code and rules? Standing aside and watching makes it seem like they either had something to gain or were afraid. Or did Tony Ducks put a lifelong veto against any decision that wasn't favorable to Amuso and Casso?
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 07/04/15 06:43 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: DB]
#849803
07/04/15 06:56 PM
07/04/15 06:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 316 North StL County, MO
StLguy
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 316
North StL County, MO
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In NNJ and im sure anywhere in NYC , areas PB calls home and BK and I'm sure countless areas , if u want 10 books , u can have 10 books , it's almost comical now w the Internet . I wasn't trying to insinuate that you didn't know what you were talking about. I was just making a joke. Do you think that most people who live in those areas know about what is going on? Do you find that the average (non-connected) italian person knows more than other non connected people?
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#849805
07/04/15 07:09 PM
07/04/15 07:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
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When guys they knew got hit and the order came from the top, they took it because they were CN through and through (unlike Amuso and Casso who broke virtually every rule in the book).
But isn't it a little contradictory? I mean, if they were Cosa Nostra through and through by following its rules while Amuso and Casso broke every rule, shouldn't they have whacked Amuso and Casso following this code and rules? Standing aside and watching makes it seem like they either had something to gain or were afraid. Or did Tony Ducks put a lifelong veto against any decision that wasn't favorable to Amuso and Casso? At first, they were most certainly following Ducks' orders. I've said countless times here that Ducks had to have given the okay on Buddy. I've also stated that I believe that he was "losing it" towards the end. As far as standing aside as opposed to going to war, it would have happened eventually. But life is timing. Little Al flipped, and Vic and Gas took it on the run. Had none of that happened, it all would have eventually boiled over and the Bronx would have had no choice but to go on the offensive. They would have most certainly had the backing of not just the Bronx/Harlem faction of the Westside, but of Chin himself and the downtown crew. Because I've long believed that Chin eventually would have killed Gas to cover his tracks in the DeCicco car bombing. And Little Jimmy, who was running the downtown crew while Matty was doing his time in Texas, hated Casso and Amuso with a vengeance. Long story short: The Vic and Gas faction would have ended up at war with the Bronx/Harlem faction of the Luccheses and the entire Westside. They would have been fucking slaughtered. They're lucky they got arrested when they did (or unlucky, depending how you look at it, because personally I'd rather go down in the street than spend thirty years in the can).
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The mob on Long island.
[Re: Flushing]
#849806
07/04/15 07:11 PM
07/04/15 07:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885 Hudson County NJ
DB
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885
Hudson County NJ
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Pill thing done , LE did great job , I got to admit , that $ train drying up
If your a local in a town you grew up in for years , then yes a decent amount your will have a senses about but not much more than that , like I said, no one really cares when the violence is gone
Nothing detailed , but you would just know who ran with who And the garbage and construction shit is a given . I don't even think it illegal , Each town has their garbage company and usually you have 1 or 2 guys making big construction moves . I won't say the name hitting it today as I don't know for sure what the details are but several generally know how things are done in these towns . The big one now is public info but I'm not saying it here as its not right .
Like I said a lot of stuff is generally legal now , hard to explain just that things haven't changed as much as one would think , except guys are way smarter now about certain industries and again no little violence . Relationship businesses and a lot of relationships are still around believe it or not
Last edited by DB; 07/04/15 07:14 PM.
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