And PB while not my first post we did get off to a not so great start. While I'm fairly new to this forum I'm a member of and reader of enough forums to know not to pick a fight with the most respected poster and expect to stay around very long so I wanna back up and apologize.
But on the same token while I'm only 28 I do have a lot of life experience and I don't think any of my topics have been lacking in thoughtfulness nor have the been unreasonable so I did get offended a little but I am a big boy and know how to fit in so we are good.

I just think of my father 61 and while he has stories of being wild back in his day he grew up got married got a degree and provided well for his four kids. I just couldn't picture him ordering a degenerate gamblers legs broken or shaking down a business and he is one of the strongest willed, toughest and smartest people I know

I don't argue the point that if you go around breaking the law today, you're going to get caught. It's inevitable.

But Gotti and Gigante are apples and oranges. Gigante was a powerhouse skipper from the day he walked out of prison on the drug beef in '62 or '63. He had a 35-year run as a skipper and then a boss, and spent his last eight years in prison. Gotti was a thug who had a four-year run as a boss, spent half his life in jail, and bragged about how prison didn't bother him. Which brings me back to my original point.

Also Id like to add that I do not think its all that common for other oc groups to have members who are 60 or 70 plus and certainly not groups that have that high of average age. When I have the time I'll try and research arrest stats and I think they will back me up. 40 or so year olds I could see. 70 plus I truly think is unique to LCN and possibly some of the older Jewish associates. Tbh I think the senior citizen gangster of different ethnic backgrounds is something only seen in movies. I do respect the opinion of anyone who wouldn't agree with this statement.

There are better examples than gotti and chin. I used them simpy because people know them but yes I most certainly agree probably not the best example. Though would you agree that if chin had started as boss in 2010 instead of 1980 or whenever he did I don't think he would have lasted as long

It's maybe the TYPE of crimes as well, generally. Gangbangers etc are possibly involved in crimes/situations where they are far more likely to be killed earlier? Perhaps it's the case you're slightly more likely to live longer if your involved in organised crime, as opposed to fairly "disorganised" crime?

None of them would have. You have to remember that when CN got off in the '20s and '30s, it was the perfect storm for them to turn it into a nationwide behemoth. Prohibition, crooked Tammany Hall politicians, an FBI that denied the Mafia's existence, and on and on and on.

If ANY of those old timers had to deal with RICO, and CSI teams, and sophisticated audio and video surveillance, and GPS tracking, and the Witness Protection Program, and on and on and on, it would have been over before it started. And, oh yeah, under those circumstances, one of them would have flipped. No doubt in my mind.

It's like comparing athletes from different eras. You can wax nostalgic all you want. But it really can't be done.

This is one area where we are in complete agreement, not a single one of them would of made it. Hell a lot of them still went to prison in the era. Also I doubt very much that the agreement Luciano crafted would have ever flown in today's political climate. I think that is an understated cause for the downfall of certain oc groups while I do believe that most politicians are still corrupted in some form it's not from Frankie your friendly local neighborhood wise guy. It's in the form of special interest groups and big busines ceos.

That oath use to have A LOT more meaning to the old schoolers...... Once they started using crunched up Kleenex to substitute a picture of a saint, how can anyone take that seriously?

"May you burn like this Kleenex if you betray your friends!"

Gigante had a liveable release date too, Gotti was thrown under the fucking jail.

Not saying this is the case, but it seems you're referring to common gangbangers and drug pushers who live by the day, I'm not referring to those types at all. I know drug guys who are in they're 60's going strong that my grandfather came up with who aren't Italian or Jewish, serious guys that you'd never know what they were unless someone of a similar age group told you so. And if they did, they wouldn't say "hey, he's a major heroin supplier", it'd be something subtle like "you see that man, he was around when I was still doing what I did, serious guy, nothing like these ignorant guys you see running around", or like my grandfather likes to tell me "thats a REAL gangster". And you're just left to wonder "well who the fuck is that?"...And they don't have these big organizations, at least I don't think so, but hell if I know, but they mostly keep to themselves and a select group of people, in their late 30's or so.

Very true. I've been saying it here for years. The Genovese family was the first to see the power of the plea bargain, and the inevitability of having it become the norm as opposed to the exception. This is a family that will kill you for NOT taking a plea. Gotti was too batshit anti-government for his own good.