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RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
#841301
05/09/15 09:09 AM
05/09/15 09:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,075
alicecooper
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From what I can see, it seems like they don't really use Rico on common street gangs? Why not, they definitely commit enough crime and are big enough in scope? Not necessary because the drug and violent crime arrests bring enough time on their own? It just seems out of character that they don't; we all know how government and media love headlines about 300 count indictments, multi-jusrisdictional task force, etc. If I get this right, Illinois made it's own Rico act... http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/22587034/new-rico-law-leads-to-street-gang-arrestsOr do the feds just not generally prioritize street gangs, leaving only state level prosecutors to bring the charges, and most of the states do not have individually crafted Rico laws?
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: alicecooper]
#841308
05/09/15 10:18 AM
05/09/15 10:18 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
Dwalin2011
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not saying Gangland doesn't get it right sometimes, but the shows I saw were a joke, not really documentaries. I agree, especially the one about the Native American gangs and the Pagans motorcycle club, watching those episodes was like watching a comedy; especially the former Pagans club president, James DeGregorio who was enraged that his former accomplices started to do jobs like delivering toys to children dressed as Santa Claus. -"we're not good-doers!!! We're against the law!!! Half of my friends are in prison or dead!"
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: alicecooper]
#841309
05/09/15 10:19 AM
05/09/15 10:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
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not saying Gangland doesn't get it right sometimes, but the shows I saw were a joke, not really documentaries. They use it plenty. If you go to the USDOJ websites to actually track such stats, you'll find that they use it just as much with street gangs as they do with LCN, it just doesn't make the same headlines. Suburban America (where you're not likely to meet a Crip, a Blood OR a Mafioso), loves a good gangster story. The street gang stuff just doesn't market as well, so you don't read about it. So the whole argument of "why don't they go after the Black dealers?" really is a crock of shit. Just because you don't read about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. As an aside, most States now have their own RICO type statute.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: alicecooper]
#841312
05/09/15 10:45 AM
05/09/15 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 247
Garbageman
Made Member
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Posts: 247
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Recently, the feds were going to indict the owner of Pilot/Flying J.on a RICO charge for his employees robbing trucking companies of their fuel rebates. As soon as the RICO rumors started flying, the settlement talks began and since the owners brother is the governor of Tennessee and the owner himself owns not only Pilot/Flying J., but the Cleveland Browns as well, money talked and the bullshit walked. Jimmy Haslam company Pilot Flying J to pay $92M fine http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11214330/jimmy-haslam-company-pilot-flying-j-pay-92m-fine
Last edited by Garbageman; 05/09/15 10:46 AM.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: BlackFamily]
#841338
05/09/15 02:22 PM
05/09/15 02:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
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@ PB,
Surburban America can actually meet Crips, Bloods, etc since they moved there decades ago. It's more or less Hollywood portrayal of stereotypes and discrimination. I hear you, BF. And I have no doubt that "successful" Black criminals have moved out of the ghettos and into the suburbs. Fuck, it's what half the Italian criminals did after they got made lol. But that's not the point I was trying to make. My point was that your average Lilly White, "John Q. Public," is a lot more interested in the LCN than about the gangs because of the way they've seen them portrayed in movies. If you look at my initial post, I made it very clear that the Feds go after the gangs just as much as they go after the wiseguys. You just don't read about it because the people I was referring to don't care to read about it. I was also quick to point out that when White people use silly lines like "why don't they go after the Black drug dealers?" that it's a line of self-serving steaming shit.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#841341
05/09/15 02:38 PM
05/09/15 02:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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It's a pity that non-Italian gangs don't make headlines. I would like especially to see documentaries about the Russian, Albanian and Greek mafia in USA. Why hasn't anybody done a documentary or a book on Alex Rudaj's gang for example? And I thought the Russian mafia could make headlines in newspapers, considering how often it's used as villains in the movies. I agree with you, Dwalin. But marketing boils down to demand, especially in the publishing industry. Especially today, in the age of e-books. There just isn't enough demand for publishers to hand out advances for books about obscure gangs that aren't likely to appeal to the masses. However, I mentioned e-books for a reason. I predict that you'll be seeing a lot more e-books about low-end criminals that won't be very credible. Look no further than the Leiber/Cicale joint project as the example. These 80-page e-books are the 21st-century equivalent of the 1950's True Detective magazine (which, ironically, were rarely very true at all).
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#841343
05/09/15 02:48 PM
05/09/15 02:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
Underboss
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Underboss
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not saying Gangland doesn't get it right sometimes, but the shows I saw were a joke, not really documentaries. They use it plenty. If you go to the USDOJ websites to actually track such stats, you'll find that they use it just as much with street gangs as they do with LCN, it just doesn't make the same headlines. Suburban America (where you're not likely to meet a Crip, a Blood OR a Mafioso), loves a good gangster story. The street gang stuff just doesn't market as well, so you don't read about it. So the whole argument of "why don't they go after the Black dealers?" really is a crock of shit. Just because you don't read about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. As an aside, most States now have their own RICO type statute. what suburbs are you talking about? the suburbs around chicago look like a ragedy area of chicago with more land
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: BlackFamily]
#841347
05/09/15 03:11 PM
05/09/15 03:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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@ Cook,
He's not talking specifically about Chicago just the generation raised in their suburbs. Exactly. An entire generation (mostly White kids who grew up in Suburbia) believes that the Feds are still on a witch-hunt against Italians and that the predominantly Black gangs are left alone. All they have to do is go to the DOJ website and look up the indictments and the ratios. But most of them aren't interested in the truth anyway .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: getthesenets]
#841361
05/09/15 05:10 PM
05/09/15 05:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Pizza,
Do you think news coverage of actual gangsters and events did more to create this American fascination with LCN or do you think it was more because of fictional gangsters that crossed over into pop culture in film and tv? or a combination of both? Probably a combination. But it was the fictional "man of honor" portrayals more than anything else. Although it's an interesting dichotomy. The third act of "Goodfellas" showed them true to form, and yet it still created a generation of wannabes. Fast forward another ten years, and we're seeing Tony Soprano banging hookers and walking outside in his underwear to pick up his morning paper (while scratching his ass, to boot). Now, that's a FAR CRY from Don Corleone in his tuxedo doling out favors to the common man, and yet it still influenced some kids into thinking it's a great life. But to be fair, it didn't start with the gangster movie. It started with the old cowboy movies. There will always be people who feel the need to identify and root for the guy with the black hat on. My personal opinion is that if you're dumb enough to become a criminal based on a movie that you saw, that you probably would have ended up a criminal even if you hadn't seen it. People HATE hearing this. But most criminals are stupid. I don't give a shit what anyone says.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#841384
05/09/15 09:10 PM
05/09/15 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,950 NJ/CA
Alfanosgirl
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,950
NJ/CA
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It's a pity that non-Italian gangs don't make headlines. I would like especially to see documentaries about the Russian, Albanian and Greek mafia in USA. Why hasn't anybody done a documentary or a book on Alex Rudaj's gang for example? And I thought the Russian mafia could make headlines in newspapers, considering how often it's used as villains in the movies. I agree with you, Dwalin. But marketing boils down to demand, especially in the publishing industry. Especially today, in the age of e-books. There just isn't enough demand for publishers to hand out advances for books about obscure gangs that aren't likely to appeal to the masses. However, I mentioned e-books for a reason. I predict that you'll be seeing a lot more e-books about low-end criminals that won't be very credible. Look no further than the Leiber/Cicale joint project as the example. These 80-page e-books are the 21st-century equivalent of the 1950's True Detective magazine (which, ironically, were rarely very true at all). Lol all those horrible e books out there especially the one from our buddy Ed. How about mafia secret judge, ever hear of that one. Ha! Mob Candy Mag and all those wannabe guys.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#841426
05/10/15 08:47 AM
05/10/15 08:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,075
alicecooper
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,075
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not saying Gangland doesn't get it right sometimes, but the shows I saw were a joke, not really documentaries. They use it plenty. If you go to the USDOJ websites to actually track such stats, you'll find that they use it just as much with street gangs as they do with LCN, it just doesn't make the same headlines. Suburban America (where you're not likely to meet a Crip, a Blood OR a Mafioso), loves a good gangster story. The street gang stuff just doesn't market as well, so you don't read about it. So the whole argument of "why don't they go after the Black dealers?" really is a crock of shit. Just because you don't read about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. As an aside, most States now have their own RICO type statute. is this one of the reports you mean or are there others that are better/different? Didn't read the whole thing yet, looks like there are large holes in some of the info just browsing... http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fjs12st.pdfthe bolded part--if that is directed toward my original post, I never said they don't go after them I asked why it didn't seem like they used Rico against them much (which apparently is not correct anyway).
Last edited by alicecooper; 05/10/15 08:49 AM.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: SinatraClub]
#841442
05/10/15 11:09 AM
05/10/15 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517 NJ
FrankMazola
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
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RICO is used plenty of times against Street Gangs and it's leaders. You only need to look back at the Reagan era to see that most of the heads of those drug crews were given life sentences off of RICO cases. OG Mack was convicted off RICO. King Blood, RICO, they tried to use it ln King Tone more than once, he was lucky. Proving a RICO offense just isn't as easy with a street gang as it is with a mafia family. There are 4 overarching types of RICO violations. Here's an exempt from my White Collar Crime Outline. (a) Use income from “racketeering pattern” to acquire an illegal enterprise - buying the enterprise (b) Acquiring an interest in an enterprise through pattern of racketeering. - Acquiring FROM racketeering - Goodfellas “Bamboo Lounge” (c) Employed by enterprise - Made guy/ associate - Employer/ Enterprise = distinct (d) Helping further a,b,c- Enterprise - Common Purpose - Relationship btwn associates - Longevity - 2+ people If you look at the bottom, the "common purpose" element is often difficult to satisfy with a street gang. With the mafia, it's a glorified pyramid scheme. The purpose is to keep the organization going. It's been stated that LCN is intended on "outlasting" it's present generation. Gangs aren't the same way. Often times there's no criminal activity-for-profit outside of hurting/ killing people.
Last edited by FrankMazola; 05/10/15 02:25 PM.
F. Mazola, Esq.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#841444
05/10/15 11:11 AM
05/10/15 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517 NJ
FrankMazola
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
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People HATE hearing this. But most criminals are stupid. I don't give a shit what anyone says.
Truest statement in the world. I've never represented or prosecuted an intelligent criminal. If I found one, I'd probably give him a pass just for making my job semi interesting, but I'm not holding my breath (joke, people…… sort of.)
F. Mazola, Esq.
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Re: RICO for street gangs, why don't they use it?
[Re: cookcounty]
#841484
05/10/15 06:55 PM
05/10/15 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 840
funkster
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 840
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not saying Gangland doesn't get it right sometimes, but the shows I saw were a joke, not really documentaries. They use it plenty. If you go to the USDOJ websites to actually track such stats, you'll find that they use it just as much with street gangs as they do with LCN, it just doesn't make the same headlines. Suburban America (where you're not likely to meet a Crip, a Blood OR a Mafioso), loves a good gangster story. The street gang stuff just doesn't market as well, so you don't read about it. So the whole argument of "why don't they go after the Black dealers?" really is a crock of shit. Just because you don't read about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. As an aside, most States now have their own RICO type statute. what suburbs are you talking about? the suburbs around chicago look like a ragedy area of chicago with more land What suburb are YOU talking about? That's a pretty broad generalization. And not exactly true.
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