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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Alfa Romeo]
#839006
04/25/15 12:30 PM
04/25/15 12:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 277 PA/FL
oldschool3
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 277
PA/FL
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Interesting that you don't include a single Obama created expense. Nothing about the Affordable Care Act, nothing about his foreign interventions, nothing about anything. So evidently you believe that Obama has not added a cent to increase the national debt. Is that part of an honest discussion? Faith, I purposely left Obama out because I didn't want my reply to take on the flavor of "my president has a bigger dick than your president". But I'll address each point you mentioned as best I can... The Affordable Care Act was originally forecasted to lower deficits for the foreseeable future. Now the Congressional Budget Office is saying that there have been so many delays in implementing it, and that the law has become so complex, that it's not possible at this time to say whether it will have a net positive or net negative effect on the annual budget. Wars. The Obama administration, as well as the majority of the left and middle in politics, approves of American intervention in Afghanistan against terroristic elements. Therefore the costs of waging war in Afghanistan was and is considered to be a necessity. TARP? The worldwide depression that was taking shape at the beginning of Obama's term in office needed drastic intervention. Right away the Obama administration bailed out the banks and automakers. The economy was in free fall when Obama took the reigns. I remember reading about thousands of layoffs per month. It is said that in late 2008, hundreds of thousands of people were being laid off....per month. If we listen to the rabid punditry, the lay offs stopped on their own and the Obama administration had nothing to do with it. Why were the automakers bailed out? Because the big three automakers were said to represent about 3 million jobs. I remember it being said very precisely that if all three folded, 3 million jobs would be gone. Those probably represented auto industry jobs, as well as all of the jobs in the local economies where the automakers were headquartered and entrenched. The bailouts costed money. Did the bailouts add to the deficit and debt, yeah probably. Were they necessary? Everyone involved in the decision making process across two presidential administrations seems to think so. Alfa, you're a thoughtful and intelligent young man, but I would like for you to consider the following in regards to some of your above points. I think what you'll find is quite to the contrary. ACA was only forecast to curb costs by Obama and absolutely nobody else...the CBO said it would increase costs dramatically and it has by hundreds of percents in many cases...ask anybody who is paying for their own insurance....and they will continue to rise, unless it is repealed. The wars were what they were...I think we can have an honest debate both ways on them and not sure which side would win..honestly. TARP was a joke from its inception, only aiding to bail out the cronies who were about to lose their ass--ets...and that, my friend, cut both ways...benefiting both Democrats and Republicans...and by that, I mean the big money people, not the rank and file citizens. As far as the auto bail outs...those were strictly union paybacks in which shareholders were stiffed out of millions in a bankruptcy action which was unprecedented in US history, as shareholders are always supposed to be first in line as creditors until Obama decided to make the UAW co-owners in an endeavor in which they had no investment...purely unbelievable. And furthermore, that "loan" bailout money has never been paid back...it was paid off with another backdoor bailout so that Obama could run around saying the loan was paid off...not even close. And guess who is making out the best of the big 3 automakers...Ford...the only one who refused bailout money.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Alfa Romeo]
#839039
04/25/15 02:02 PM
04/25/15 02:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss![](/ubb/1star.gif)
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Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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Interesting that you don't include a single Obama created expense. Nothing about the Affordable Care Act, nothing about his foreign interventions, nothing about anything. So evidently you believe that Obama has not added a cent to increase the national debt. Is that part of an honest discussion? Faith, I purposely left Obama out because I didn't want my reply to take on the flavor of "my president has a bigger dick than your president". But I'll address each point you mentioned as best I can... The Affordable Care Act was originally forecasted to lower deficits for the foreseeable future. Now the Congressional Budget Office is saying that there have been so many delays in implementing it, and that the law has become so complex, that it's not possible at this time to say whether it will have a net positive or net negative effect on the annual budget. Wars. The Obama administration, as well as the majority of the left and middle in politics, approves of American intervention in Afghanistan against terroristic elements. Therefore the costs of waging war in Afghanistan was and is considered to be a necessity. TARP? The worldwide depression that was taking shape at the beginning of Obama's term in office needed drastic intervention. Right away the Obama administration bailed out the banks and automakers. The economy was in free fall when Obama took the reigns. I remember reading about thousands of layoffs per month. It is said that in late 2008, hundreds of thousands of people were being laid off....per month. If we listen to the rabid punditry, the lay offs stopped on their own and the Obama administration had nothing to do with it. Why were the automakers bailed out? Because the big three automakers were said to represent about 3 million jobs. I remember it being said very precisely that if all three folded, 3 million jobs would be gone. Those probably represented auto industry jobs, as well as all of the jobs in the local economies where the automakers were headquartered and entrenched. The bailouts costed money. Did the bailouts add to the deficit and debt, yeah probably. Were they necessary? Everyone involved in the decision making process across two presidential administrations seems to think so. Alfa, I don't defend Bush as a president when he did the wrong thing. I agree with you that he shouldn't have created Medicare Part D and also agree that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. (That doesn't mean that we shouldn't have intervened in Iraq, but we could have intervened in other ways.) Oldschool3 already addressed the ACA. I'll just add that Obama and other Democrats flat out lied to the American people to help pass it, especially with that "You can keep your doctor" line. It also has increased costs for those who have to purchase their own insurance, waiting times have increased, more doctors are quitting, etc. California's version of Obamacare is on it's way to becoming a total failure. Worst of all, it's unconstitutional despite Justice Roberts calling it a tax. It forces people to purchase something or pay a huge fine. Everyone ought to read Judge Roger Vinson's 2011 ruling that unfortunately Justice Roberts ignored. Agree with you on intervening in Afghanistan, but think it could have been fought better under the president and that our military is often hamstrung by politics which ends up with more American (and allied Afghan) deaths. The bailout of AIG was probably necessary, but should have had more controls. However, laws in place prevented additional controls and AIG gave out huge bonuses that should never have happened. The TARP bank bailout is debatable and I'm not sure what the best solution was here. The bailout of the Detroit auto makers is another story. It mostly went to GM and, as Oldschool3 wrote, Ford stayed out of it. He's right that it bailed out the unions. Without the bailout GM would have had to go to bankruptcy court and the unions would have been forced to take cuts, and another auto maker would have bought them out. Hmm... Fiat comes to mind (Fiat bough Chrysler in 2009 after it went BK -- despite accepting bailout money). That was totally unnecessary and taxpayers are on the hook for $9.26 billion to over $11 billion, depending on the source. Another source says it actually comes to over $16 billion.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: pizzaboy]
#839081
04/25/15 05:38 PM
04/25/15 05:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528 AZ
Turnbull
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![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528
AZ
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The damage to the American Dream, to our standing in the world, to the integrity of our institutions--to the trust Americans used to have in their leaders--is going to be very hard to overcome. There it is. This country will never be the same. I wish you were wrong. I'm afraid you're right.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Alfa Romeo]
#839085
04/25/15 06:16 PM
04/25/15 06:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
![](/ubb/20k.gif)
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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The Clintons, Part 8: This Time it Has a Vagina (allegedly). Pizza, when I read this a few days ago, I almost spit my coffee onto the computer screen. I just want you to know that, sir. Well, I aim to please ![grin grin](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/laugh.gif) . The damage to the American Dream, to our standing in the world, to the integrity of our institutions--to the trust Americans used to have in their leaders--is going to be very hard to overcome. There it is. This country will never be the same. I wish you were wrong. I'm afraid you're right. Where there's life, there's hope. But we need more hope than we were promised back in 2008. More change, too ![frown frown](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/frown.gif) .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#839093
04/25/15 07:08 PM
04/25/15 07:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
![](/ubb/20k.gif)
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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change? change? you think you are going to get change? if you believe that, I have some land I will sell you in Idaho. I was being sarcastic. Don't you remember Obama's pitch back then? "Hope and Change." its acreage - behind an old goat trail. If I was interested in old goats, I'd pm with you more often ![grin grin](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/laugh.gif) .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: bigboy]
#839132
04/26/15 07:36 AM
04/26/15 07:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
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Anyone want to take a bet now this will disappear in about a week. Clintons are bulletproof- the media is in the bag for them.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: bigboy]
#839207
04/26/15 01:51 PM
04/26/15 01:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
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The nyt et al is just running interference for the clintons. Its a big newsdump so they can get the ugly stuff out of the way before the actual campaign geta started. You are a fool if you think nyt gives two shits about the truth or would dare to ever harm a democrat as important as clinton. In a month this story will be down the memory hole.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Faithful1]
#839389
04/27/15 04:11 PM
04/27/15 04:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 277 PA/FL
oldschool3
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 277
PA/FL
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It's possible that the New York Times and Reuters want a Democrat even more Left-wing than Hillary, like Elizabeth Warren or Martin O'Malley. I could see them throwing her under the bus for them if they think she's too damaged or compromised to win but believe that someone else even more liberal has a better chance. BINGO.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Faithful1]
#839468
04/27/15 10:21 PM
04/27/15 10:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 317 Good ole USA
rockstar_man45
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 317
Good ole USA
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It's possible that the New York Times and Reuters want a Democrat even more Left-wing than Hillary, like Elizabeth Warren or Martin O'Malley. I could see them throwing her under the bus for them if they think she's too damaged or compromised to win but believe that someone else even more liberal has a better chance. I shudder to think what would happen if Elizabeth Warren ever became President. Hillary isn't my favorite candidate right now, but the last thing we need is someone like her. Fuck I don't even know why I hold any hope. Each party just bitches at the other like an old married couple without any regard to the people they're supposed to be representing. Both sides have become increasingly polarized and the rate this is going we're probably going to get a Cruz vs Warren type election in 16. If that happens I'm casting my vote for Megatron. Because even a robot disguised as a car could do better at this point. On a more humorous note did anyone see that stupid rapper 'Waka Flaka Flame' announced his candidacy? ![lol lol](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/lol.gif) I'm almost looking forward to that. He's only 28 though so I don't know the hell he'd get legally sworn in
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#840498
05/02/15 08:21 PM
05/02/15 08:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
BarrettM
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
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The lady is too old to be President and she doesn't have the required background.
Jeb Bush has more nous.
But really, hasn't the world seen enough Bushes and Clinton's by now?
America needs some new ideas.
But you look at what's out there.... Rubio, Christie.
It's a sea of mediocrity. You took the words right out of my mouth ![whistle whistle](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/whistling.gif) Really that's all she wrote. Sure, there's fringe candidates like Kerry Bowers and Bernie Sanders but to most of us they're nobodies. Rand lost my respect when he 360'd on everything he stood for right out of the gate.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#840503
05/02/15 09:39 PM
05/02/15 09:39 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
Footreads
Underboss
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Underboss![](/ubb/4stars.gif)
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
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[quote=Moe_Tilden]The lady is too old to be President and she doesn't have the required background. Like Obama had a better back ground to be president ![smile smile](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/smile.gif) On her BACK ground. She has so much fat on he Back you can put your dick on her back squeeze the fat on her back over it and actually fuck her back so you don't have to look at that face of hers.
only the unloved hate
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Footreads]
#840505
05/02/15 09:48 PM
05/02/15 09:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
ItalianForever
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
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Bernie Sanders
A self proclaimed socialist. Free shit for everyone. Even illegals. Sanders would be a fucking disaster for this country. He would do nothing about immigration. You can't have a welfare state and open borders.
Last edited by ItalianForever; 05/02/15 09:49 PM.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Footreads]
#840506
05/02/15 09:51 PM
05/02/15 09:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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She's an old hag. She's in the same general age range as Reagan was in '80 and Dole was in '96. And the Left viciously attacked them with the adult diaper and memory loss jokes. Yet if the Right attacks Clinton in a similar fashion, they'll be labeled hateful and sexist. Fuck her. I hope she goes the plastic surgery route to look younger and comes out looking like the crazy cat lady from the Upper East Side. Or better yet, Mickey Rourke before he had some of his own surgery corrected. Or the best case scenario, she goes in and gets Joan Rivers' anesthesiologist. What, too soon? ![grin grin](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/laugh.gif)
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: pizzaboy]
#840513
05/03/15 03:09 AM
05/03/15 03:09 AM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
Footreads
Underboss
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Underboss![](/ubb/4stars.gif)
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
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She's an old hag. She's in the same general age range as Reagan was in '80 and Dole was in '96. And the Left viciously attacked them with the adult diaper and memory loss jokes. The left did a job on Dole when he ran for President. They even made fun of his arm war injury. I thought older people would get pissed off by that. They weren't it pissed me off. The liberals keep trying to scare old people by playing the you will lose SS if we elect a Republican as President. I would be afraid if I had to live on just social security.
only the unloved hate
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Re: Hillary Clinton lies
[Re: Faithful1]
#840542
05/03/15 08:09 AM
05/03/15 08:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
![](/ubb/20k.gif)
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Pizza, you don't even have to go that far back to the Republicans are too old questions. Remember John McCain? It's the same thing with the meme about Dan Quayle and Sarah Palin, yet you hear nothing from the Left questioning Joe Biden's lack of intelligence (hint: a rock collection is smarter than Biden, then he's on top of that he's a dirty, nasty, grabby old man). It's all hypocrisy. I forgot about McCain! Yup, he was 70 when he announced his candidacy in 2007. A whole year older than Hillary will be, come election time. And the press was rabid about how old and out of touch he was. And that's a strong analogy about the alleged "stupidity" of Quayle as compared to Biden (as VP candidates). Although, I must admit, I hope that Biden runs against her and tears the party apart, a la Teddy Kennedy in 1980. I wouldn't vote for him in the general election. But why should a two-term sitting Vice President step aside for someone just because of here last name? Fuck her. I can really see why people hate her. But if you voice that opinion, you're automatically labeled a sexist by New York the Times or the Huffington Post (even though she's not very popular among women, either).
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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