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Repercussions of killing a made guy... #833503
03/19/15 05:53 AM
03/19/15 05:53 AM
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NE1020 Offline OP
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I read about a Lucchese soldier who was killed by Frank Lucas's organization back in the 70s, and no consequences of the act were ever reported.

Have their ever been any other known murders of made guys by other OC groups?

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833505
03/19/15 06:20 AM
03/19/15 06:20 AM
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Castellammare del Golfo
Malandrino Offline
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I remember Roy murdered a made guy from another family before he was even made and Nino just pretty much told him to "make it look like something else" and they made it look like a robbery gone bad.


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833507
03/19/15 06:40 AM
03/19/15 06:40 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: NE1020
I read about a Lucchese soldier who was killed by Frank Lucas's organization back in the 70s, and no consequences of the act were ever reported.

Have their ever been any other known murders of made guys by other OC groups?


The Frank Lucas thing seems like a myth to me. I'd challenge anyone to actually come up with a name of this Lucchese soldier they killed.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833512
03/19/15 07:05 AM
03/19/15 07:05 AM
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Lol, I agree I doubt it's true... imagine if he'd killed a soldier in Vario's crew. Lucas would be found dead the next day.


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833517
03/19/15 07:38 AM
03/19/15 07:38 AM
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Posts: 1,776
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Wasn't it Nicky Barnes' organization who killed Carmine Pugliese (or was it Carmen Pugliese)?


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Dwalin2011] #833519
03/19/15 07:40 AM
03/19/15 07:40 AM
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Last edited by Dwalin2011; 03/19/15 07:41 AM.

Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Dwalin2011] #833534
03/19/15 08:35 AM
03/19/15 08:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011


Carmine Pugliese was 26 at the time of his death (July 1976) which (according to logic) seems to suggest he was too young to have been made. Newspapers at the time talked about his brothers being involved with the Lucchese Family, but I have never seen anything that points at any of them actually being made. Besides, Carmine Pugliese was considered to be an informant. If anything, Barnes did the Luccheses a favor (and it was probably sanctioned).

Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 03/19/15 08:40 AM.

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Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833538
03/19/15 08:46 AM
03/19/15 08:46 AM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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I remember there was also some discussion about Jeff Fort in Chicago having whacked 2 Outfit associates (though not made members). Probably weren't considered important since there were no retaliations. Don't remember the names though.
But is 26 too young? Bonanno was boss at 26, Yonnie Licavoli at 23, Riccobene was made at 18. I thought cases like Ligambi made in his 40s were rarer.

Last edited by Dwalin2011; 03/19/15 08:47 AM.

Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Dwalin2011] #833545
03/19/15 09:09 AM
03/19/15 09:09 AM
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Posts: 2,418
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011

But is 26 too young? Bonanno was boss at 26, Yonnie Licavoli at 23, Riccobene was made at 18. I thought cases like Ligambi made in his 40s were rarer.


Those were different times back then. Youngsters grew up a lot more faster in the 1920s/1930s than they did later on. And in the case of Bonanno, he had the pedigree. From the 1970s and on, cases of mobsters getting made although still in their 20s, are extremely rare.


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Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: HairyKnuckles] #833552
03/19/15 10:17 AM
03/19/15 10:17 AM
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Homers77 Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011

But is 26 too young? Bonanno was boss at 26, Yonnie Licavoli at 23, Riccobene was made at 18. I thought cases like Ligambi made in his 40s were rarer.


Those were different times back then. Youngsters grew up a lot more faster in the 1920s/1930s than they did later on. And in the case of Bonanno, he had the pedigree. From the 1970s and on, cases of mobsters getting made although still in their 20s, are extremely rare.



Who are some of the younger guys from this generation that were made young and what family are they in ??

I think I read somewhere that Barney from west side was made young ...

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833555
03/19/15 10:55 AM
03/19/15 10:55 AM
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yigido Offline
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I think there was also a case in the 50s in Chicago were a made member was killed by a an African-American gangster. Retaliations followed ofcourse. Tough im not sure how or what the background was for the killings.

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: yigido] #833560
03/19/15 11:45 AM
03/19/15 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: yigido
I think there was also a case in the 50s in Chicago were a made member was killed by a an African-American gangster. Retaliations followed ofcourse. Tough im not sure how or what the background was for the killings.

Maybe you are referring to the case when in 1951 Teddy Roe killed Marshall Caifano's brother. But it was self-defense, they were trying to kidnap him.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: HairyKnuckles] #833565
03/19/15 12:20 PM
03/19/15 12:20 PM
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Terence Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011

But is 26 too young? Bonanno was boss at 26, Yonnie Licavoli at 23, Riccobene was made at 18. I thought cases like Ligambi made in his 40s were rarer.


Those were different times back then. Youngsters grew up a lot more faster in the 1920s/1930s than they did later on. And in the case of Bonanno, he had the pedigree. From the 1970s and on, cases of mobsters getting made although still in their 20s, are extremely rare.


I recall reading somewhere that Alphonse Trucchio was made at a young age. Do you know if he was in his late 20's or early 30's Hairy?

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833568
03/19/15 12:30 PM
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jimmy burke killed billy batts, and buried his body. tommy desimone got whacked for it. not burke.

burke and his crew probably killed more made guys, and got away with it. I guess big earners can whack made guys.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Terence] #833573
03/19/15 12:50 PM
03/19/15 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Terence
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011

But is 26 too young? Bonanno was boss at 26, Yonnie Licavoli at 23, Riccobene was made at 18. I thought cases like Ligambi made in his 40s were rarer.


Those were different times back then. Youngsters grew up a lot more faster in the 1920s/1930s than they did later on. And in the case of Bonanno, he had the pedigree. From the 1970s and on, cases of mobsters getting made although still in their 20s, are extremely rare.


I recall reading somewhere that Alphonse Trucchio was made at a young age. Do you know if he was in his late 20's or early 30's Hairy?


Alphonse Trucchio was very young when he was made. He was probably made in 2001, so he was around 25, 26. There are other examples of guys getting made very young. Barney, Cesare Bonventre, Baldo Amato, Little Allie Boy Persico and a few others. Most of the guys, actually a huge majority of all inducted since the 1970s, were in their late 30s, 40s, 50s and in some cases in their 60s.


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Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Binnie_Coll] #833575
03/19/15 12:56 PM
03/19/15 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Binnie_Coll
jimmy burke killed billy batts, and buried his body. tommy desimone got whacked for it. not burke.

burke and his crew probably killed more made guys, and got away with it. I guess big earners can whack made guys.


Billy Batts was not made. Hill/Pileggi added him being made in the book simply for dramatic effect. Or they were dead wrong about Batts. They couldn´t even get his name right.

Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 03/19/15 12:57 PM.

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Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833576
03/19/15 01:11 PM
03/19/15 01:11 PM
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Posts: 410
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How does it work about guys who get made in their 60s? I mean, don't they get tired of waiting after a certain amount of time?

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833585
03/19/15 01:51 PM
03/19/15 01:51 PM
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yigido Offline
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@dwalin yeah thats the one.

@cleanbandit: i dunno how it was after the 70s but the books were closed for 20years when they started making guys in the late 70s.

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: HairyKnuckles] #833589
03/19/15 02:49 PM
03/19/15 02:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
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Scorsese Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011


Carmine Pugliese was 26 at the time of his death (July 1976) which (according to logic) seems to suggest he was too young to have been made. Newspapers at the time talked about his brothers being involved with the Lucchese Family, but I have never seen anything that points at any of them actually being made. Besides, Carmine Pugliese was considered to be an informant. If anything, Barnes did the Luccheses a favor (and it was probably sanctioned).


This barnes testimony from the presidents commission on organised crime from back in 85. this is the brief mention of the pugliese murder. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/105010NCJRS.pdf



Quote:
MR. OINTINO: Mr. Barnes, you have made
a statement that the supplier who was determined to be an informant named Carmine Pugliese, you decided to terminate this individual?

THE WITNESS: Yes. sir.
MR. DINTINO: Did the Council seek permission from anyone to terminate this individual, outside of your own council?

THE WITNESS: No, we didn't. We didn't require supervision from anyone.
We weren't subjected to any intimidation by any outside group_

MR. DINTINO: Do you know if he was connected to any of the seven Hafia families in New York City?
THE WITNESS: We didn't know. We werent
interested.

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833592
03/19/15 03:07 PM
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Binnie_Coll Offline
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that says it all.

thank you Scorsese.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Scorsese] #833594
03/19/15 03:13 PM
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Scorsese Offline
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I don't think Frank lucas ever had the same influence barnes, frank matthews or even the philly black mafia had. He was actually ripped off during the early 70s by some italian drug dealers and didn't do anything about it. Frank Matthews got ripped off by the same people but he kidnapped one of them and got his money back.

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/529/149/386914/
Quote:
A) The Mattews-Harrison Rip-off (Spring 1973)

As is true of each of the four major deals hereinafter described, Albert Rossi and Ernest Coralluzzo were the principal participants in this transaction. In the spring of 1973, these two and James Capotorto negotiated with Frank Matthews and Harold Harrison for the sale to them of thirty to fifty kilograms of heroin. After Matthews and Harrison had paid $375,000 of the agreed price, Rossi and Coralluzzo, exhibiting a disrespect for the rules of fair play extreme even among narcotics kingpins, decided to renege on their part of the deal.3 Matthews and Harrison, understandably annoyed by such lack of cooperation, decided that self-help would be the most appropriate remedy under the circumstances. Unfortunately for Mr. Capotorto, he turned out to be the object to which Harrison and Matthews helped themselves. Rossi and Coralluzzo, in their only display of humanity revealed by the evidence at trial, returned the $375,000 in exchange for the release of their grateful companion.


Ive posted this up before , i was wondering if anyone knew anything about these italian drug dealers?

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833597
03/19/15 03:30 PM
03/19/15 03:30 PM
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pmac Offline
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Always wonder the way john pappa killed a respected lcn guy like scopo from a powerful family is treated by other lcn guys in jail. He killed him in front his house in gottis home turf.

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Alfa Romeo] #833603
03/19/15 04:21 PM
03/19/15 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Alfa Romeo
Originally Posted By: Malandrino
I remember Roy murdered a made guy from another family before he was even made and Nino just pretty much told him to "make it look like something else" and they made it look like a robbery gone bad.


That gave Nino Gaggi added power over Demeo. Demeo had to be at least smart enough to know that Nino could get him whacked if he divulged Roy's past to a Boss.


What I find interesting in Murder Machine is the part of how Nino genuinely wanted to convince Roy that being an unmade associate was much better for him. Unlike a button, an associate has a much higher tolerance for mistakes and can move more freely, etc. Roy wanted his button so bad, but neither Paul or Nino were okay with that.

Maybe in a way things would have turned out a little different had Roy not been made?


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: Binnie_Coll] #833605
03/19/15 04:58 PM
03/19/15 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Binnie_Coll
jimmy burke killed billy batts, and buried his body. tommy desimone got whacked for it. not burke.

burke and his crew probably killed more made guys, and got away with it. I guess big earners can whack made guys.

The murder of Foxy Jerothe was the one that got Tommy clipped.

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833614
03/19/15 06:36 PM
03/19/15 06:36 PM
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Footreads Offline
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You can kill a made guy without permission if you use outside people to do it then kill them so they can't trace it back to you.


only the unloved hate
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833620
03/20/15 01:15 AM
03/20/15 01:15 AM
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naples,italy
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Quote:
But is 26 too young? Bonanno was boss at 26, Yonnie Licavoli at 23, Riccobene was made at 18. I thought cases like Ligambi made in his 40s were rarer.


Quote:
Those were different times back then. Youngsters grew up a lot more faster in the 1920s/1930s than they did later on. And in the case of Bonanno, he had the pedigree. From the 1970s and on, cases of mobsters getting made although still in their 20s, are extremely rare.


Quote:
Alphonse Trucchio was very young when he was made. He was probably made in 2001, so he was around 25, 26. There are other examples of guys getting made very young. Barney, Cesare Bonventre, Baldo Amato, Little Allie Boy Persico and a few others. Most of the guys, actually a huge majority of all inducted since the 1970s, were in their late 30s, 40s, 50s and in some cases in their 60s.


Barney Bellomo is a made man son and cousin of an associate can speak both Italian and English. He spent a year studying mortuary science (very useful in the case to remove the on corpses)so he has the pedigree to be made yonger.

Same thing for Phil Leonetti made at 27 and Salvie Testa made at 24;both was initiated in Cosa Nostra by a relative,the uncle nicky for leonetti and his father for salvie.

Junior Gotti and little allie boy was made only because their fathers was the bosses.

now is more diffcult that has made young, especially after the case donnie brasco that was re-introduced the rule that you have to be full-blooded italian and that you gonna be an associate for 10 years before being proposed to be made.

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 03/20/15 01:16 AM.
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833621
03/20/15 01:38 AM
03/20/15 01:38 AM
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Furio, from where did you get the info that you have to be an associate for 10 years?

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: HairyKnuckles] #833622
03/20/15 01:54 AM
03/20/15 01:54 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Alphonse Trucchio was very young when he was made. He was probably made in 2001, so he was around 25, 26. There are other examples of guys getting made very young. Barney, Cesare Bonventre, Baldo Amato, Little Allie Boy Persico and a few others. Most of the guys, actually a huge majority of all inducted since the 1970s, were in their late 30s, 40s, 50s and in some cases in their 60s.


^ This.

If a guy is getting made in his early 30's, to saying nothing of his 20's, he's obviously very well connected (likely a blood family member making it happen) and has an inside track to getting his button.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: furio_from_naples] #833623
03/20/15 01:59 AM
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now is more diffcult that has made young, especially after the case donnie brasco that was re-introduced the rule that you have to be full-blooded italian and that you gonna be an associate for 10 years before being proposed to be made. [/quote]

There have been guys made after Brasco who are not 100% Italian,. Campos, Gotti Jr., Craig DePalma and a few others. Sorry but I never heard of the 10 year rule. Where did you hear this? Falcone was proposed in 2 1/2 by DePalma.

Re: Repercussions of killing a made guy... [Re: NE1020] #833625
03/20/15 03:40 AM
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I read in Pistone book and Gotti relative was both italian this is the means of full blooded italian;gotti was 1/4 or !/8 jew but his mother and his father was italian.

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