When Sonny, Clemenza, etc are all holed up together, and Michael goes to visit Kay...Sonny has guys sent with him even thought "Solozzo knows he's a civilian."

Right after Michael leaves Kay, he goes to the hospital to visit Vito, and notices the guards are gone. He has to enlist Enzo to help until the Cavalry arrives.

Question - where are the guys that Sonny sent to follow Michael? Shouldn't they have been available to guard Vito since they would have followed Michael to the hospital?

Apparently, their job was only to drive Michael to the hospital.

You raise an interesting point, DonJon. Logically, if the job the guys were given was to protect Michael, they would have stayed with him at the hospital. But FFC was seeking to make a very dramatic scene, and it was--Michael, alone, visits the hospital and finds it deserted, knows his father and he are in mortal danger, acts courageously and resourcefully...

It also highlights the transition of Mob "values": Clemenza has no doubt whatsoever that Michael would be in no danger going to the city without bodyguards because "Solozzo knows he's a civilian. Later, Apollonia gets blown up because she happens to drive Michael's car. Then, during the Great Massacre of 1955, there's more "collateral damage": Rocco and an associate machine-gun the hooker who has the misfortune of being with Tattaglia; Neri kills Barzini's chauffeur; Clemenza kills the elevator operator and the guy in the car with Stracci...By GFII, Kay nearly gets wiped out because she's in the bedroom with Michael. Sic transit Mob "code of honor."

It's not like it's a huge plot hole, it's just that after hundreds of times of watching this movie, the other night I was watching it, paying particular attention, then when "huh" ??

If memory serves, you see Michael driven to Kay's by bodyguards. But I believe a cab drops him off at the hospital.

So he probably told the bodyguards he was staying with Kay overnight and they left.

W, I think you're right. I forgot about the sequence.

Thanks, I may have missed that and I will check it again next time around.

In that scene, you can see how closely the two bodyguards are sitting in the front seat. I assumed that there were only 2 bodyguards. So, why were they sitting so close? I guess it was because the shot was blocked that way to get all three occupants of the car in the shot.

That's cause the body guards left Michael to do their cameo in Annie Hall.

Teamster members.

Off topic, but I've always felt it was in that scene where Michael chose his path, not when he volunteered to hit Sol and Mick. Michael became a Mafioso the minute he moved his father into the other room.

PB, as you know, a lot of people here agree with you. Hard to argue that when he said, "I'm with you now, Pop," he didn't just mean that he was physically by his side.

You could also argue that his decision to whack Sol and Mac was tactical--to protect his father--not necessarily a commitment to becoming Don, especially since Sonny was alive and was running the family.

SPOILER:

In the novel, Michael is unconscious for several days after the bombing that killed Apollonia. When he comes to, he tells Don Tomassino, "Tell my father to get me home. Tell my father I wish to become his son."

That was a powerful passage, indeed. But you mentioned the novel, so I'm going to hijack the thread a bit.

We've discussed this often, but my favorite part of the novel was Neri's backstory, and how surprised and moved he was when he thought Michael was finished with him, then Michael insisted that he have lunch with he and Vito. Definitely one of Michael's most sincere moves. I don't think it was tactical, I think it was genuine and human of him. Of course, this was before Michael turned into a coldblooded monster.

Neri's backstory should have been in the movie. Period.

I have a different take PB. As the novel and a deleted hospital scene inform us, Michael was the prodigal son. In II's flashback scene, that is reinforced.

Michael's words at the hospital and in Sicily are only familial; the prodigal son returns home.

I don't know, Oli. I think a pretty good case could be made for both the literal and the figurative. Definitely one of the most debatable points here over the years. Although I've always been in agreement with you that the flashback scene at the end of Part II made it clear that Michael was a genuine rebel who wanted to choose his own way.

But whether it was the Mafia or Corporate America, Michael Corleone would be a control freak. I think that's one of the reasons why FFC has often stated that "The Godfather" mirrored Corporate America.

I don't believe that the elevator operator got shot in the baptism scene. When the door opens, he moves out of the way. I know its a shotgun, but I cant see clemenza moving his point of aim from straight ahead toward the 2 dons. To get a shot at the operator, he would have had to take at least 1 step to his left and reloaded, that's IF he felt the operator would have wanted to i.d. him after having the crap scared out of him by having 2 shotgun blasts unloaded at almost point blank range.

I think you're right, PB. In the book: "For the first time since it had all started [Michael] felt furious anger rising in him, a cold hatred for his father's enemies.” This mirrors Vito's feelings after his first confrontation with Fanucci: "But at that time all he felt was an icy rage that this man planned to rob him of the money he had risked his life and freedom to earn." I think that feeling of cold anger or rage is the call to destiny for both men.



My take, PB, is that this passage is best read in conjunction with Luca's back story, to show the type of thing that Vito did to win Luca's loyalty. If that take is correct, then obviously it was all tactical and discussed beforehand by Vito and Michael.

The moment when Michael made the choice was a very subtle move...He was standing on the steps of the hospital and light's Enzo's cigarette....he pauses and looks at the lighter and snaps it shut.......at that moment, the flame (good Mike) goes out...along with his thought's of a legit life.....the turning point of the whole series

Interesting idea. I never thought about the symbolism of the light going out before.

I always felt that moment was when Michael realized his true path, but for a different reason.

As tough as he looks, Enzo is so nervous that he can't light his own cigarette. Michael does it for him and looks down at his steady hands, realizing that he has the personality and skill set to be a Don.

The novel comments on that, too: "To his surprise, his own hands were steady." Another hint that he was fast approaching his destiny?

I might add that since Mike was a former Marine and for his bravery in battle, Michael was awarded the Navy Cross, he was also featured in Life magazine in 1944. Facing a couple of thugs was a walk in the park for him.

The United States Navy Cross is the second-highest military decoration for valor the nation awards, second only to the Medal of Honor. The Navy Cross is primarily awarded to a member of the United States Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, or U.S. Coast Guard (when operating under the Department of the Navy) for extraordinary heroism in combat.

One of the features of the Enzo hospital scenes is Enzo's wardrobe. He's dressed like the quintessential hit man. I think it was done that way to leave the audience wondering what were this guy's intentions.