Actually if you'd actually read my previous post, I blalantly stated that its only 5 extra guys, so 50 members may be possible. But recent reports state otherwise. I posted a Mob Talk video which backs it up. Theres other forums with articles to back it up.

And yes, every single person on the RD forum has a grudge against Wiseguy, to the point where each and every one of them will make stuff up. Nothing on there or any other forum is a personal attack against him, its all disputes of his info and the overhyping of specific families.

And nah, I'm more of an Italian dressing sort of guy. How about you ?

Even if you want to dispute the exact year some of the guys I listed were made, it's apparent to anyone that the Philadelphia family has continued to make new members in recent years. So you were wrong on that. I can't really go on the Real Deal anymore but who are these 40-45 member estimates by? And you're basing your 5-8 active member claim for Detroit by some articles you read, as if any or all of them gave an all inclusive list?

This all started when you asked if Detroit is "on the same level" as Philadelphia. It isn't.

First, the total membership size of the Philadelphia family is probably twice that of Detroit. And even if you want to go with only active members (which is difficult to do), the number of active Philadelphia members probably is close to the total Detroit membership.

Second, looking at the indictments alone, those in Philadelphia have been far bigger and more consistent in recent years (whether you want to look at the last 5, 10, or more) than in Detroit.

Except for perhaps the exact year some of the guys I listed were made (which didn't prove my point wrong since there obviously plenty who have been made in recent years) what else about Philadelphia have I said that's wrong?

You seem to have felt you were backed into a corner (which wasn't the case) and now you're holding onto this point about Philadelphia not being any different than Detroit and it's demonstrably untrue.

As for my "rep," on these forums, I suppose it depends on who you ask. There are certainly those, including on the Real Deal forum, who continue to hold a grudge against me because I proved them wrong in any number of arguments.

What reports? What articles? Post them.



I haven't "over-hyped" anything. I've simply said Philadelphia is larger and more active than Detroit, which is true. It's an answer to your original question about them being on the same level. If you want to believe they are comparable, go ahead, but all the evidence says otherwise. And Philadelphia doesn't need to be "hyped" for an honest, objective, informed observer to see that.

Ivy I have nothing against you.I think the vast majority of us agree that Philly is larger and more active. I am just curious as to where you got the info about the 05 and 2011 ceremonies. I know 07 is from the scoops tapes.

The ceremony dates are a real confusion but all of them have been identified as soldiers by the FBI and people like Anastasia so it's just a guessing game until one of the soldiers flips.

I don't believe for one minute that Staino was made in 05, more likely 2000/2001. As for the 2011 ceremony, it definitely took place and Dom Grande was made along with Sonny Mazzone, maybe a few others.

I double checked and those more recent ceremonies came from the Licata tapes. He specifically mentions two ceremonies - 5 members made in the first one and another 2 in the second. Up to that time (2007) the family had made 7 members under Ligambi. Damion Canalichio was one of the guys they mentioned specifically as being made during that time.

As for Staino, believe it or not, he was only made around 2005. Before that he was a high-ranking associate. According to law enforcement he was one of Ligambi's top guys in 2001 ((along with Massimino, Lancelotti and Lucibello). In late 2004, George Anastasia said Staino was likely to replace either Massimino (who was one his way to prison) or Joe Curro (who had just died) even though he was not made at that point. In 2006, law enforcement had him as a captain. So Staino would have had to have been made in the earlier ceremony Licata mentioned where 5 members were made.

Ivy,
Congratulations mate. Sincerely best, to you and yours.

Deserved mate.
Sonny.