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May 27th, 2012
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Dropping the guns after hits #814013
11/17/14 07:37 AM
11/17/14 07:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 673
afriendofours Offline OP
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afriendofours  Offline OP
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Anyone know the reason why so many mobsters seemingly drop their guns right at the scene after hits ?

I would have thought with finger prints, DNA etc that it would be a bad idea, especially in the time period when The Sopranos is set. I can understand back in The Godfather days when forensics was less capable.

But just watching the episode there, where Bobby drops his gun after the hit for the Canadian pill supplier people. Got me wondering again, why they do it ?

Last edited by afriendofours; 11/17/14 07:38 AM.
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #814015
11/17/14 07:48 AM
11/17/14 07:48 AM
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Snakes Offline
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Imagine if someone (or more specifically, a cop) were to witness you leaving the scene of a crime with a firearm. Even if it were hidden, a cop would be able to search you. Someone like Bobby, whose fingerprints were apparently not on record, could get away without keeping the murder weapon. Obviously, there are instances and circumstances where disposing of the weapons later is feasible, but in your example, dropping it at the scene was probably the best option.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #814017
11/17/14 07:58 AM
11/17/14 07:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 347
It's cold in the north
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Primo Offline
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It's cold in the north
And I mean Bobby was in Canada so would of been sort of worse if he had been caught with a gun there. I think the more worrying thing is what sort of shirts does he buy that rip so perfectly.


I've walked along the red canal of mars
I've known kings and king makers
Poets painters and paupers
I've danced danced on the rings of Saturn
Still your pilgrim soul is the only thing that ever mattered
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #814040
11/17/14 10:31 AM
11/17/14 10:31 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 778
Castellammare del Golfo
Malandrino Offline
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They're illegal guns bought on the black market... no serial numbers. Just being caught with one of them can get you a couple of years in prison.
If you notice most of the hitmen have latex gloves on, even though it's a little difficult to tell. The zips Tony brings in supposedly have no records in the US so, in the show's universe it makes sense. (In reality they'd get their fingerprints at the airport)
After a hit you have to decide whether you will keep the gun or drop it... and it's often better to leave it at the scene for a number of reasons like not being caught with a hot firearm on you, and considering they're illegal, untraceable guns, you aren't leaving any traces if you're wearing gloves.

Btw, man I love your username but I can't help but read your name in Pacino's voice.


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #814049
11/17/14 11:49 AM
11/17/14 11:49 AM
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Lou_Para Offline
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The worst thing you can do is get caught with the gun on you.
That's why most hits are done with stolen guns that can be dropped at the scene.In addition,if a guy is not wearing gloves,he certainly will make sure to remove his prints before leaving the scene.

If the cops can't tie you to the murder scene,it will be tough to convict you. Other than prints or witnesses,there's not much to go on.

If you put two behind the ear of some guy,the only DNA at the scene is going to be his. The chance of leaving any usable DNA of your own by simply pulling a trigger is remote at best.

That's why these guys drop the gun,go home and shower,and dispose of the clothes they were wearing,in case they got some microscopic traces of the victims blood on them.

Ballistics can't tie the casings or bullets found at a scene to anything but the gun used to fire them. That's why you don't ever want to be holding the gun.

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #814140
11/17/14 11:35 PM
11/17/14 11:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 573
Scottsdale
Its_da_Jackeeettttttt Offline
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All fine graduates of the Peter Clemenza School of Mafia Hits. Notice that no cannoli was left at the scene?

Echoing the other commenters -- the only way to make an untraceable gun traceable is to have it in your possession.

And I'm glad Malandrino also noticed something that had bugged me too about using foreign hitters. After 9/11, there was a brief time where most non-Visa nations (Italy was one) weren't required to give prints, but that was changed around 2004. The Rusty hit was around 2006, if I recall correctly.

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: Malandrino] #814147
11/18/14 03:05 AM
11/18/14 03:05 AM
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Posts: 673
afriendofours Offline OP
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afriendofours  Offline OP
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Good posts, thanks :), makes alot of sense too now i see it.

Originally Posted By: Malandrino


Btw, man I love your username but I can't help but read your name in Pacino's voice.


Cheers man smile.

"yeah, a friend of mine, a friend of ours, what do i call you ?" - Donnie

"you keep your fucking mouth shut about me" - Lefty

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #814208
11/18/14 10:45 AM
11/18/14 10:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 18,100
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Being caught in possession of any gun that's not registered to you, or that you don't have a permit to carry, is ipso facto a felony in most jurisdictions. Getting caught with a gun anywhere near where a shooting crime occurred is even worse.

Most police departments use ballistics in shooting crimes. They try to retrieve spent bullets at the crime scene from victims' bodies, walls, furniture, etc. They then photomicrograph the bullets, which serves as a kind of fingerprinting process. Gun barrels are rifled--they have spiral grooves cut into the inside that impart a lateral spin to the bullets, stabilizing them in flight and making them more accurate (same principle a quarterback uses when he throws a spiral pass). The rifling imposes a pattern of grooves and marks on a bullet that can identify the maker of the gun (i.e., some use righthand rifling, others lefthand, and other markers).

The bullet's markings can, in many cases, be tied directly to the gun that fired it due to wear and/or imperfections in the gun barrel that show up on the bullet. If you just shot someone, and are caught at or near the scene with a gun, the police will fire your gun into a tank of water, retrieve the bullet, and match its markings against bullets retrieved from the victim's body. If they make a match, you're finished. PD's will send their results to the FBI, which has a database of ballistics of guns and bullets used in crimes. So, if you're caught with an unregistered weapon or are carrying without a permit--even if no crime can be attached to you--the PD will test-fire your weapon, retrieve the bullet, and send results to the FBI data base. If that data base matches the bullet from your gun to a bullet on file retrieved from a crime site, you could be charged with that crime. Then it'd be up to you to prove that you didn't commit that crime. That's why it's often risky to buy a used gun from someone else.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #814404
11/19/14 12:48 PM
11/19/14 12:48 PM
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Moe_Tilden Offline
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Interesting thread.


Benny Fazio: How you doing Mr. Leotardo?
Phil Leotardo: I'm sitting there listening to WFAN and I go, isn't it that the kid who used to drive for Tony?
Benny Fazio: I'm on my way to the hospital.
Phil Leotardo: Well that's up to you.
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #830995
02/28/15 01:18 PM
02/28/15 01:18 PM
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don illuminati Offline
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Remember Corky telling the two zips who are going to hit Rusty that the "fish" have been cleaned, implying that they could drop them after the hit.


"How's the Italian food in this restaurant?'
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: don illuminati] #831426
03/04/15 03:49 AM
03/04/15 03:49 AM
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Posts: 32
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Big_T Offline
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I hated to see Valli's character go. I thought he was very credible as Rusty. Wished they had developed his character more.


" No matter how big a guy might be, Nicky would take take him on. You beat Nicky with fists, he comes back with a bat. You beat him with a knife, he comes back with a gun. And if you beat him with a gun, you better kill him, because he'll keep coming back and back, until one of you is dead! "
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: don illuminati] #831546
03/05/15 01:37 AM
03/05/15 01:37 AM
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afriendofours Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: don illuminati
Remember Corky telling the two zips who are going to hit Rusty that the "fish" have been cleaned, implying that they could drop them after the hit.


Good call, who was Corky

Was he just a junkie associate of Chrissy ?

Seemed quite high level business to be involved in for an unreliable heroin addict, then again Chrissy was a fairly unreliable heroin addict too at points lol.


Last edited by afriendofours; 03/05/15 01:38 AM.
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #831598
03/05/15 09:16 AM
03/05/15 09:16 AM
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Scottsdale
Its_da_Jackeeettttttt Offline
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Scottsdale
Corky Caporale was an associate of Christopher's.

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #831792
03/07/15 08:31 AM
03/07/15 08:31 AM
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Posts: 32
Michigan
Big_T Offline
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Wiseguy
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Actually if memory serves me correct, Corky fucked up less than Chrissy did!


" No matter how big a guy might be, Nicky would take take him on. You beat Nicky with fists, he comes back with a bat. You beat him with a knife, he comes back with a gun. And if you beat him with a gun, you better kill him, because he'll keep coming back and back, until one of you is dead! "
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: Big_T] #831813
03/07/15 10:51 AM
03/07/15 10:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 347
It's cold in the north
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Primo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Big_T
Actually if memory serves me correct, Corky fucked up less than Chrissy did!


Well not only that he was able to speak fluently with the zips. Not sure what other demeo family members could do that. Lol maybe junior and the older members.


I've walked along the red canal of mars
I've known kings and king makers
Poets painters and paupers
I've danced danced on the rings of Saturn
Still your pilgrim soul is the only thing that ever mattered
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #831888
03/07/15 08:35 PM
03/07/15 08:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
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ThisGuyOverHere Offline
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Last edited by ThisGuyOverHere; 03/07/15 08:36 PM.
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: ThisGuyOverHere] #831921
03/08/15 06:11 AM
03/08/15 06:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 32
Michigan
Big_T Offline
THE ENFORCER
Big_T  Offline
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Wiseguy
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Originally Posted By: ThisGuyOverHere


Not to veer off topic, but I have always liked the term TCB. Started with Elvis and his posse calling themselves "The Memphis Mafia". Word is that The King purchased gold rings with the initials "TCB" spelled out in diamonds. I think that might be my next tattoo.

But you are absolutely correct about Eugene. I think his character got short changed in the series. He would have made a somewhat hot-tempered, but effective underboss.

Last edited by Big_T; 03/08/15 06:15 AM.

" No matter how big a guy might be, Nicky would take take him on. You beat Nicky with fists, he comes back with a bat. You beat him with a knife, he comes back with a gun. And if you beat him with a gun, you better kill him, because he'll keep coming back and back, until one of you is dead! "
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #834329
03/24/15 09:18 AM
03/24/15 09:18 AM
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Posts: 113
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mbo Offline
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About the markings on the bullet. Not that it would be the best way, but wouldnt it be possible to alter the "print" of a gun by damaging the barrel. Of course you would also have to pick up the spend casings, since there are marks on them too - honestly i dont see why people would use a semi auto pistol in a hit instead of a revovler; the revolver is much less likely to jam, the person is much less likely to inadverdently screw up by pushing a wrong button on the gun, it doesnt leave any casings behind, and 5 or 6 shots would be plenty if u just want to off an unsuspectning guy.

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #834497
03/25/15 08:30 AM
03/25/15 08:30 AM
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Castellammare del Golfo
Malandrino Offline
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MBO, the mob usually just buys their guns on the streets so they take what they can get, at possibly the lowest price. The DeMeo crew was a little different because Roy was a bit of a gun nut and an expert at many military weapons, so he knew what he was doing.
The rest of them just took what they could get, usually a .38 does the job very well. I could see them favoring semi's because of a larger capacity magazine and faster rate of fire, but all in all, you're right about the revolvers.
Don't forget though that semi-auto's can be fitted with suppressor or pre-fitted like the .22 Ruger, which is one of the mob's most prized weapons for silent hits.


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #840969
05/06/15 11:24 AM
05/06/15 11:24 AM
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Posts: 90
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lefty_two_guns Offline
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sorry guys but this is all a bit too risky for me, yes drop the gun if you want but i would be taking it, but not leaving any dna is a risk at best one fiber could put you in bind. Better to chuck some hair and blood at the scene just to confuse the scientists.

Oh also i would be wearing a helmet or mask of some sort cameras and witness etc, better still ride up on a motorbike and dod
the deed then ride off.

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #841015
05/06/15 04:58 PM
05/06/15 04:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,692
Where ever needed.
DuesPaid Online sad
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DuesPaid  Online Sad
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Where ever needed.
I would just be usin LTG for the job.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #841179
05/08/15 10:11 AM
05/08/15 10:11 AM
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lefty_two_guns Offline
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Does it make you a mental midget if you think about this stuff too much?

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #841219
05/08/15 05:07 PM
05/08/15 05:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,692
Where ever needed.
DuesPaid Online sad
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DuesPaid  Online Sad
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Where ever needed.
Nah, just mental.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #841304
05/09/15 09:21 AM
05/09/15 09:21 AM
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lefty_two_guns Offline
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sometimes times you don't know when you might need to know this stuff

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #849782
07/04/15 02:18 PM
07/04/15 02:18 PM
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azguy Offline
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I personally think tossing the gun is a tribute to the greatest "hit" scene with Michael Corleone in GF #1...Bobby almost thrown is the same way, sort of in disgust....


"In onore della Famiglia la Famiglia e' aperta"
Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #961340
01/11/19 10:45 AM
01/11/19 10:45 AM
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I’ve been rewatching some old Soprano’s episodes and I noticed almost every hit they drop the gun. This is in a lot of shows actually. I’m conflicted on this so I came to the search engine.

Obviously where you live gun laws are different. I live in VA, you don’t have to register your firearms here. Now if you want to carry it concealed that’s a different story. But a lot of folks I know prefer the gov. not to know every firearm they have.

So I’m sure in NY/NJ/PA etc it’s a lot different than Virginia. I would be super paranoid to drop the gun. What if you didn’t clean it perfectly. One strand, a couple skin cells fell on it before you put the gloves on etc. You’d be fucked.

If you buy if off the street or even from a close friend. You gotta wonder the backstory etc. when dropping that thing. Same goes for holding onto it & possibly getting caught with it. If it has a past, you would be looking at more than the hit just committed. Basically I feel leaving the gun gives the cops a starting point IMO.

And as mentioned scientific advances are able to restore filed off numbers easier with chemicals & such.

Lastly, revolver vs typical handgun. Again my thoughts are in/out no trace left for them to start the goose-hunt. A revolver leaves no casings behind. But also as mentioned, that rules out silencers. In that case I may even consider a garrote cord or something if that is possible.

Anyway, I guess it comes down to weighing the risk. What are the odds I may get stopped nearby with the murder weapon on me before I can escape. Opposed to, we’ve taken as many precautions as possible, cleaning everything, gloves etc. And just drop it, leave & let them have the gun.

I guess they always just walk away so calmly it’s like they have no expectation of being stopped. But it’s not just movies or even just in our country. Griselda Blanco in Columbia. Middle-age man jumps off back of motorcycle & walks up behind her at the meatstore, pops her a few times. Drops the gun and calmly walks away to the motorcycle as he disappears into the city streets. Maybe I just don’t know enough about guns. Too me it just seems leaving it, is hoping that 100/100 things go right and are cleaned and correct. Opposed to just keeping it out the crimescene completely.

I read all of your posts and I’m still a lil puzled. Just trying to imagine the process from start to finish of obtaining & leaving the gun without worry. Even loading bullets with gloves. Lot’s of stuff. Seems like it’s just weighing the risks- unless there is some fool proof method I’m unaware of.

Thoughts?

Re: Dropping the guns after hits [Re: afriendofours] #961343
01/11/19 12:59 PM
01/11/19 12:59 PM
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Goldy Offline
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Just wanted to point out that Bobby was wearing gloves when he shot the guy in the laundry room. I'm assuming loaded the bullets into the magazine with gloves as well. It's harder to get prints than they make it look in the movies and tv shows too, btw. If you've been fingerprinted before, you know how they do it to get a clean print, would be pretty hard to get an identifiable print beyond a doubt on something small like a 9mm casing. The surface needs to be clean before the print and if it's on top of a print or smudged or smeared in any way, good luck.

I would think the #1 reason they would leave the gun on the scene is because that's where the trail ends. Unless they destroy the gun (without getting caught first) there's going to be a trail back to them or back to someone who bought it from someone and so on. Leaving it there the cops have the gun so there isn't any chain of custody for them to trace back or attempt to trace back to who ever used it in a murder. It's much easier to match up bullets to a gun than it is to get a fingerprint or DNA evidence (other than semen) from a crime scene.


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