great post, very informative,i knew a confrontation happened, but, didn't know about the fbn on anybody's payroll.

that is strange, considering how chaste the fbn was said by many to be. thank you giacomo.

Can I ask where this information came from?

giancomo its important that if you can site your source.
please do, as there are many researchers on this site.

thank you.

I guess those sources aren't coming.

You guys have to understand that sometimes you read so much of stuff sometimes you forget where you read it at, it happens.

that's very true. Ive done that a lot, but now I make a mental note to myself to try and remember where I heard it or read it.
then if someone does't like the post , they can take it up with the author. and least they know I didn't make it up.

but that's just me.

The problem is that there are good sources and bad ones. The story about Luciano assaulting Genovese sounds like something out of the book "The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano." That's an example of a bad source because the book is fraudulent. It was examined by the FBI, which considered it a hoax. It was analyzed by New York Times organized crime reporter Nicholas Gage, who came to the same conclusion. Then the entire book was taken apart piece by piece and refuted by Richard N. Warner in an article "The Last Word on The Last Testament." So if that story came from that book, then it's fiction and it didn't happen.

The Last Testament is only fraudulent in the sense that someone took a Hollywood movie script screenplay and tried to pass it off as an authorized autobiography.

It's fraudulent in the sense that it was passed off as an authorized biography when not only was it not authorized, it's full of made-up quotes, made-up facts and misinformation.

I read the Informer article on the Last Testament. It seems like one of the main things wrong with it is it was out of chronological order....which would be expected if you are composing a screen play from notes taken during 30 different interviews with the subject. There are some made up things, some fake quotes, but mostly it is out of chronological order and well known names are misspelled. But just like the article in the Informer said, much of the book couldn't be refuted because there was nothing to compare it to or measure it against.

alfa, the book may be tainted, however I do believe many parts of it. Luciano wanted money, and, I do think at times he was on the level. for instance the killing of abe reles. Luciano
says in the book. he went to Costello and asked him "what can be done to reles, can we get to him" and Costello said "the cops will have to do it" Luciano replied "then let the cops do it"

and that's what happened. Luciano explains it cost 50,000 and
the cops threw him out the window. now, I believe that, because reles was going to put Anastasia in the death house. so I do think that part and more are credible.

Hey Binnie, it's true that it wouldn't be accurate to say there is NO truth in that book. Abe Reles went out that window. The cops were assigned to watch him. He flew too far away from the building to justify the cop's alibi which was that he fell trying to lower himself out of the building in an escape attempt using sheets or something.

There are facts in the book.

But I do believe the Informer has it right when it was claimed that the author of Last testament relied on older mafia books for material and not Lucky Luciano.

Another thing I noticed...

The Last Testament fictitiously depicts Lucky Luciano's language as very vulgar and gutter, like some corrupted English dialect you'd expect to hear from someone who lived in the Five Points slum of ancient New York City. But the real Luciano, in his news media quotes and trial testimony, spoke very astutely/articulately. I think the reason for that is because Charlie Luciano never wanted to be in the mafia in the first place and was coerced into it by Joe Masseria. In other words, he wasn't originally a mafia guy.

But Gosch (author of Testament) was said to have interviewed Luciano 30 times. That's a lot of information. Even if you "phony it up" as Luciano said, you are working from a great deal of fact to fabricate a great deal of fiction. Unfortunately because so much in that book is presently unverified/proven false, we can't take the facts presented in that book as gospel without corroboration.

alpha, you covered it all very well. I agree. thank you. again an informative post.

Binnie, you're a gentleman. We have to keep this thread going at least a little bit longer.

In the Testament, Luciano says that the ship that capsized in the harbor was sabotaged by his connections and he used that as a ruse to parade himself as a war hero to get sprung from prison.

I believe that.

It is a fact that the Luciano Family (Genovese) and Mangano Family (Gambino) controlled both the Manhattan and Brooklyn waterfronts through the Longshoreman's Union. I believe this was for the facilitation of narcotics trafficking.

The media reported that the government did it's own "investigation" and found no evidence of sabotage of the warship that capsized. But since when does the US government release the results of an investigation that are self incriminating or highlight it's own incompetence?

Never.

No, that boat didn't just catch fire and go belly up.

It was set on fire.

What I think REALLY happened is that the mafia set the USS Normandie on fire, blamed foreign saboteurs, and then this was used as a cover story to allow Dewey to exonerate Luciano from prison. But Dewey was told what to do by OSS (aka modern day CIA) so that one of the world's leading drug traffickers could continue to make someone in OSS very rich....from Italy.

There exists an anecdote, however true, which claims that it was the OSS (CIA) that got Luciano clemency and sprung him from prison.

Luciano had connections to OSS (CIA) and Naval Intelligence. He channeled information back to Naval Intelligence. Therefore he was a Top Echelon informant and his capos and soldiers were used to gather information. Not a rat in the sense of incriminating his criminal colleagues. But an informant nonetheless.

Imagine a Boss and all of his caporegimes knowingly gathering information for Naval Intelligence.

On a side note, people here laughed when I said Carlo Gambino was probably a CIA informant, but everything points to that. Carlo Gambino was visiting Luciano in Italy before he became Boss. That implicates Carlo in the Luciano/OSS/Sicilian Mafia/Heroin combination. Carlo held court in Little Italy out in the open with immunity. Carlo didn't do time. Everything points to Carlo being an employee of sorts of the CIA.

One of the characteristic attributes of a CIA asset is that they can move a lot of weight (drugs) and never see the inside of a prison. The CIA will shield them from local law enforcement, FBI, and even DEA. There are many modern examples of this phenomenon.

As an alternative to the conspiracy theory, there's a book that did a massive amount of research into the SS Normandie and found that there was no sabotage. http://www.amazon.com/Normandie-Life-Times-Harvey-Ardman/dp/0531097846

of course it well could have been sabotage, to set up the government to want protection on the waterfront, the mob controlled it absolutely, ive read similar accounts of how the mob manipulated the government along these lines, I really don't doubt that passage in the book. I also believe the mob and the new York city government were deeply entwined, much more than we are led to believe, that's why im going to buy " the mob and the city" the author was on this site and impressed me.

Faithful1,

Thank you for the referral for a book you feel is worth the time.

I am not an ignorant person. I am open minded. But before I invest the effort into reading 435 pages that "debunk conspiracy theories", I would like to know if anyone has any idea how Salvatore Lucania would have effected his exoneration from prison without the drama that took place on the New York waterfront. IE How would Dewey have been able to spring him without Luciano's purported service to America as the excuse?

alfa, that's my contention, there was no other way dewey would consent to freeing him, unless the government put it in his ear, the mob most certainly had the ways and means, to set the ship on fire. and lest we forget that the most powerful elements in the mob wanted him out. and, they held the n.y. waterfront in the palm of their hand.

Damn straight. Dewey had an all American image in a more innocent time. Luciano was never found innocent of compulsory prostitution. What would Dewey, who ran for President eventually, look like springing a mafia member from jail...for what? At a minimum, it would probably be the end of Dewey's career. Without the Normandie blowing up and catching fire, Luciano stays in prison and his story ends there. But we know Luciano was far too connected to be left languishing in a jail. So the Normandie's demise was awful convenient I would say.

I thought Joe Beck was in the LUCCHESSE family ?

two joe beck

The other Joe Beck was Joe Lapi from the Genovese family. He was big into garbage and hazmat disposal along with Fiumara and Co.


@Faithful1...The Joe "Beck" Dipalermo you mentioned as a Genovese captain on the first page, was that a mistake because i thought he was a Lucchese?