It's not 'la casa nostra' or our house, it's 'cosa nostra' our thing.

Also Frank Costello was on Time magazine:

Great magazine were did you find that picture

We're did you find that picture of time magazine that's a great copy.

I found it on ebay.

Not so sure about that. Gotti did what he had to do to survive. If he was wrong for having to murder Castellano, then that stems from him being wrong for joining the mafia in the first place which put him in a position to have to kill to survive.



Gotti more of a businessman than a mob boss? I'm not sure he was a perfect model of either. To tell the truth, he wasn't even that good of a soldier. Couldn't earn like the rest of the kleptos. Probably should have been an honest construction worker making legitimate income than trying to be a gangster/earner/boss/whatever.



He probably didn't have much choice. Someone on this forum said that when Gotti made himself Boss, he didn't even know who all the capos were, nor who the soldiers were who answered to them. Therefore everyone probably was made to come down to the Ravenite to kiss him just so he could see who the hell was in his family. On top of that, his was a violent coup. So that necessitated him testing each capo to make them bow and show obeisance....to discover who was his enemy of course. So that's another reason everyone was made to come down to the Ravenite and bow down.

A Boss' power is his ability to summon capos and soldiers and compel them to appear at his whim, under circumstances of his choosing, not theirs. That is the only thing that strikes fear in the troops. That is the only thing protecting a Boss from his family. So Gotti exercised that constantly out of paranoia.



RICO did him in. Wiretapping did him in. He stepped into Paul Castellano's shoes and got indicted exactly like his predecessor. Do we say that Paul Castellano "set this thing of Ours back 100 years"? No we don't. But he was going to be indicted and imprisoned for 100 years wasn't he.



Either Casso tried to kill him or he didn't. Saying the cameras were there and that's why you couldn't make an attempt is not an effort. Otherwise we should have seen Gotti ducking from bombs and bullets while being hounded by paparazzi.

Would Casso have gotten him eventually? Maybe. Or maybe the Chin. Maybe Sammy and/or DeCicco. If Gotti had not gone to jail, he would have probably been whacked.

He was never really the legitimate Boss of the Gambinos in the first place.

Rocco.....

great post alfa, especially about him not being a legitimate boss, that's what a lot of people don't realize about this clown,

I would judge a boss by the way he leaves his family. when he is imprisoned. bad enough he left the gambinos like a baby leaves a diaper. but, then he appoints his retard son as boss?

how much better that family would have been if that fatso would have been whacked? possibly would have saved a lot of guys from serving prison terms.

We had this same discussion on another forum years back. One of the guys was from Gotti's neighborhood so I'm going to speak for him.

John Gotti may have been considered a terrible boss by many but to his neighborhood he was considered a "True Godfather".
The residents of Ozone Park and Howard Beach regarded him as a gentleman, a guardian angel, a class act, and a terrific guy.

John Gotti kept his neighborhood safe. "A man of the people" Gotti would frequent many of the small shops in his neighborhood always smiling a saying hello. He was a man who held respect and honor to the highest degree. He was a true Godfather in the sense that he gave back to his community. Residents would go to him when in need. He gave money to the folks who had lost their jobs, he paid for a child's operation that his parents couldn't afford. He took care of the neighborhood, HIS neighborhood. Many remember the Fourth of July parties that Gotti used to throw on 101st Ave complete with a barbecue feast and fireworks. He took care of everyone because of his love for his neighborhood. He had real old world family values.

Unlike other mob bosses, Gotti had the support of the local people. The government feared this. The government put their two cents in by saying he was the worst mob boss ever. They claim he was too flashy and that brought attention to him and cosa nostra. Bullshit! The government went after every mobster flashy or not. They want you to go out like a mouse like most members did. Not John though. Also, the government railroaded Gotti's lawyer Bruce Cutler. They basically said he hung out with the Gambino's/Gotti too much and got thrown off the case. When you're in trouble with the government you better have your council around. Mr. Cutler was great, blocked all the governments not so legal tactics. That's why they threw him off the case. The fix was in and in full effect. Like John said it took 80 million dollars 3 lying murders to put him in jail. I believe John Gotti when he said, "You won't see another guy like me even if you live to be 5000 years old." John won because he spent all his healthy years as a gangster. He brought his own family fame and fortune. His last few years he was sick and died. Who had to take care of him the Government . Johnny Boy is free.



Gotti may have been a lot of things, but in the end he took his punishment like a man. He went in and did his time.


Gotti's own words:
This is gonna be a cosa nostra 'til I die. Be it an hour from now, or be it tonight, or a hundred years from now when I'm in jail. It's gonna be a cosa nostra.

I never lie to any man because I don't fear anyone. The only time you lie is when you are afraid.

When I was able to "graduate from the gutter" I took myself out of the gutter. I advanced myself. I told you my life was dictated for me, I didn't dictate my life.

I'm a man's man. I'm here to take my medicine.

Right now I'm cursed. I am stuck in this jail and that's the end of it...
Ya know there's nuttin I can do about it

Allegedly, when the priest came in to give him Last Rites, Gotti unable to talk due to the cancer, motioned for the priest to go away.

In the end, John Gotti died with HONOR. That's all that mattered to him. It was "Cosa Nostra" til he took his last breath.



This hat was approved and passed out throughout the neighborhood to show the public support for Mr. John Gotti.

I totally understand when people say Gotti gave his crime family members away to the government- due to making them show up at the Ravenite each week

But I believe Gotti realised early on that meeting mob members 3am in the morning wasn't going to work. Not only does he have to meet a ton of guys but no matter where he went, he was trailed by the FEDS or news media.

If he did meet someone, again it'd have to be somewhere in a building or after hours club. So he's back to square 1, being in a building is perfect place to get bugged as so many mobsters found out

Ok he could meet them 3am in the morning and go for a walk talk. Again, back to square one. The Feds and news media will be filming away hence no matter where he met them in secret or not, they would be filming him anyway

Factor in rats too, no matter where he meets an underling, there's a risk the feds are watching

On top of that, Gotti was no Big Paul. In that Paul isolated himself from many mobsters within the family, and only met a few key men who were making him money.

That is why Paul was so resented because he didn't show appreciation for the blue collar guys.

Gotti knew this and that's why it was important for him to meet various capos and soldiers alike, there's only so many hours in the early hours. And impossible to fit each guy in. And even if he did, he'd have the same problems he faced by meeting them outside the Ravenite.

He was never really the legitimate Boss of the Gambinos in the first place. [/quote]

I don't happen to think that Gotti did a particularly fantastic job as a boss and he definitely left the family worse off than when he got there so I'm no Gotti sympathizer but this is not correct.

Following the Castellano hit, with both the boss and underboss dead, two meetings were held and chaired but Joe Gallo, who as consigliore held the highest ranking position in the Gambino's at the time...so I guess the balance of power.

All capos attended these meetings. The first was to alert the captains to situation and tell them they were making enquires.
The second about a week later, was to vote in a new boss. DeCicco nominated Gotti and he was unanimously voted in by all capos. He immediately appointed DeCicco underboss and announced he was retaining Gall as his consig.

Although the circumstances were probably very ominous with everybody in attendance knowing it was Gotti and co. who were behind the move, protocol was followed and that was the time for any capos who thought otherwise to nominate an alternative as boss. Envoys were then sent to the other family's to notify them of the change in administration. That's as legitimate as it gets.

I believe it was Gravano who said the only captain not there that night was Nino Gaggi.

Sammy would never have made a move against Gotti. he himself admits this, after Frankie came to him with the proposal.

Like sammy says,' I made a list of all the guys I needed to kill in order to get away with it. I came up with 10, 12 guys. Some of them I really liked, like Gene. The thought of killing his son killed me. '

Sammy would never have generated the support to take over and I'll tell u why. Yes he had a tough crew but he was too GREEDY!!! The soldiers and capos liked Gotti as boss (not because they personally liked him) rather he wasn't greedy. And didn't demand a big cut. But with Sammy as boss, he'd sink his teeth into every money making scheme for himself and the other family members knew this.

All the people that have said Sammy would make a good boss are delusional. He would have made deals with the Chin worse than Paul did if it meant making more money!

Alfanosgirl, that was a beautiful post about John Gotti.

I don't purport to judge him as a person. That's not my place.

When I said that he was better off going legitimate, that was my way of saying that he probably wasn't meant to be a wiseguy, he was meant to be legit, like a family man.

You can't help but feel for Gotti when you heard him complain that being Italian held his kind back and that was his excuse for going the illegal route. Maybe when he was coming up that was true, but probably no longer true by the time he became the self appointed boss of the Gambinos.

Please forgive my choice of words. When I say that Gotti was not the legitimate Boss of the Gambinos, I meant exactly that, based on the idea that he didn't have Commission approval to ascend to take control of a Borgata. I didn't mean to imply that he was horrible at being a Boss.

Yes, he was voted in by a majority of Caporegimes, but that is only the smaller part of what makes a Boss legit. The Commission needed to approve Big Paul's removal, which it didn't.

alfa, so true, so true, the commission is what counts.

tony tough, Sammy was always about money, he had to one of the greediest mobsters ever. I think he got what he deserves. I hope he never gets out.

That was due to the Kefauver Hearings, not because Costello was strutting around NYC like a peacock.

Did the Commission approve of Albert Anastasia's hit? Does that mean Carlo Gambino wasn't a legitimate boss, which by extension made Paul Castellano an illegitimate boss.

I wasn't there, but by the way the story reads, it seems yes. Or maybe they were about to (at Appalachin) but someone prevented that.



Well, the Commission accepted Carlo as an Acting Boss for a probationary 3 year period, and then accepted his being made official after that. The Capos were with him. The Commission was with him.

Whoever killed Anastasia, and for whatever reason, the Commission put their stamp of approval on it. Maybe we don't have an official explanation of the Anastasia hit because that was one of the topics that was meant to be discussed at Appalachin?

Was Paul Castellano legitimate? Carlo appointed him and the Commission accepted him, but did the Caporegimes vote for him? Not sure about that one.

I don't remember reading about a commission vote on killing Anastasia. Commission acceptance afterward isn't in the rules. If that's what happened then Gambino wasn't legit and his appointment of Castellano would not be legit.

I don't think there was ever a vote either. But I think it was discussed. Whoever did it had support in more than one family.

Now to hit someone and then explain afterwards, I'm not sure if that went against the rules. I don't think it did. Anastasia used that ruse to keep himself from being whacked right after Mangano disappeared. He made specious arguments...after the fact. Bill Bonanno also spoke about a soldier who was wronged and asked for permission to whack the ones who wronged him. Supposedly Joe Bonanno told him that he should have killed the perpetrators first, then come before the administration to explain. Since he did not do so, it was too late for revenge. So explanations after the fact do have their place when a person is seen as important enough to be given a chance to explain.

I can't believe we're having this conversation about John Gotti as a person.

Aside from the obvious, the guy had his neighbor kidnapped, beaten and dissolved in a vat of acid!

I don't care how many old women he helped cross the road in front of the paps to get good PR. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary that he was no Robin Hood.

Honestly I wonder if the media is partly to blame for this.... Stockholm Syndrome? I don't know what you would call it - glamorisation of such an incendiary figure.

Alfanosgirl, does Gotti's "Old fashioned family values" and "Class act" include fucking the daughter of his friend Neil Dellacroce ???

I am one of the few that say gotti was a decent boss. I mean, who are we comparing him to; guys from the 1950's who basically walked through the city with the words "mafia boss" on their back because law enforcement lacked any effective technology and back then, law enforcement could be bought much easier. Carlo Gambino, Joe colombo, and all the others wouldnt last 5 years on the street with todays laws and technology. Does anyone think Merlino was a better boss???? Really, no comparison. We could mention Ligambi's tenure but he was basically a bookmaker and loan shark. Gotti controlled industries and controlled a MUCH larger group of men/ family. Whether gotti was flashy or not, the end result would be the same: life in prison. His days on the street would have been the same number give or take a year. The Gambino's may have a lower key boss now because they dont control nearly as much and dont have nearly as many guys,
Years ago michael chernoff said the governments goal was to break the mob down to basically a gambling and loan sharking organization. Almost a street gang type status. I believe they are almost there.
Back to gotti. He was loved by most of his guys, respected, and made everyone money. I guess joe colombo and bill bonanno were low profile....lol

Castellano and Gravano were intelligent enough to transcend the mafia. Guys like Corrao owned businesses. Guys like De Meo and Gaggi made more money.

Gotti was a degenerate gambler and hellraiser who strong armed his way into the hotseat with the help of having Dellacroce's ear.

Gotti had a magnetic personality, granted, but he had no nous and he did the family more harm in the long-term than any positive effects he had in the short-term.

Gravano was a sociopath that had 19 people killed.. He would have been a good boss????
Castellano would have been convicted had he not been killed.
DeMeo lived the last few years of his life paranoid and strung out on coke..
Gotti made millions for himself and those around him.

Was Gotti not piggy backing on others, including Castellano, and Gravano too, though?

De Meo, before he knew he was going to get whacked, was a monster money maker and helped mold guys like Testa and Senter who went on to be recruited by the Lucchese's. Not many of the guys close to De Meo ratted either - Borelli, Rosenberg, Testa and Senter.

Gravano as boss? Who knows? It was Gotti who dragged Gravano & LoCascio with him. Gravano was a crafty, industrious guy and he didn't play chicken with the Feds. Yes, his problem was insatiable greed. He did order and influence hits but what boss didn't? How many he personally participated in is debatable.

Castellano made milions for himself and those around him.Neil fraction was not capable for sophisticated crime,they were bunch of idiots and leg brakers.The west side today is n7mber 1 because of white crime.The money Gotti had was thanks to Gravano.john his son,his brother bunch of idiots.I personally don't care one way or anothe but Gotti's brought the familly down.He was no boss my friend.And Demeo never did coke

i second..along with he is the best man for at least 5k years. gotti broke every rule..alfanosgirl..you must be one of gottis grand kids..so i will not hurt your feelings..he was your relative.

Demeo started doing coke later.. Gotti made a lot of money, that whole crew made a lot with gambling, loan sharking, and of course heroin.
Castellano was going to be convicted and sent away for life. As far as castellano making a lot of money for those around him; thats why he was able to be killed, he was greedy and gotti used that as an excuse.
Gravano wasnt the biggest earner, the gambinos had trucking, unions, and other things gravano didnt have..gravno made a lot, no doubt.

This thread literally lessens my will to live.

They weren't making that much,the Gotti crew,if they were they would not deal heroin.There's only so much you can make bookmak and loansh.The guy was a plumber and wore 2000 dollar suits,drove in a limo with an entorage.Is that smart?The bensonhurst part of thr family were the biggest earners Jimmy brown,frank decicco,Gravano even Patsy Conte who was a profilic drug dealer.They all made 3 times what gotti made and you couldn't ever see it on them.
Now thats smart.You can't tell me that john jr and Peter were not idiots.Me personally would put Decicco on top or Jimmy brown and gotti underboss.I don't know how Frankie didn't get the top spot.