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Outfit Bosses Question ? #784350
06/17/14 02:31 PM
06/17/14 02:31 PM
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GaryMartin Offline OP
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In Wayne Johnson's book, "A History Of Violence," Johnson lists Outfit bosses as the following starting with Accardo from 1944-1956
Giancana - 1956 - 1966
Sam Battaglia - 1966
Alederisio - 1967
Cerson - 1968
Accardo - 1969
Bucierri - 1969 - 1973
Turello - 1973 - 1979
Aiuppa - 1979 - 1986
Feriola - 1986 - 1989
Carlisi - 1989 - 1992
DiFronzo - 1992 - 2011
Sarno & Cataudella 2011 - ?

I wasn't aware that Cerone, Bucierri or Turello were bosses? I thought Aiuppa took over in 1971? What do I know? I wonder if this is a typo?

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784354
06/17/14 02:47 PM
06/17/14 02:47 PM
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Snakes Offline
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Battaglia: 1966-1967
Alderisio: 1967-1971
Aiuppa: 1971-1986
Carlisi: 1986-1993
DiFronzo: 1993-2005?
D'Amico: 2005?-Present

D'Amico is only speculation on my part. Buccieri and Turk were never bosses. Buccieri was having health problems towards the end of his life and couldn't actively be boss. Turk ran the South Side crew from 1973-1979 but this is the only place I've ever seen him mentioned as boss.

Ferriola as boss from 1986-1989 seems to be the most debated, both officially and unofficially. I could go either way but I'll say Carlisi was boss because he was Aiuppa's protege and heir.

Sarno and Cautadella as boss is laughable at best. Sarno may have been acting boss of Cicero at some point but boss of the Outfit? No way.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784356
06/17/14 03:02 PM
06/17/14 03:02 PM
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GaryMartin Offline OP
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This really gets discouraging after awhile. Even the so-called experts don't agree. So where do you go to get credible information and facts? Also, is the entire book filled with errors ? I don't know, but it sure is aggravating.

"A History Of Violence" has a ton of information relative to the 1400 mob-related murders. But if the info is not correct, why bother to waste time and read the book?

Just aggravating.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784370
06/17/14 03:42 PM
06/17/14 03:42 PM
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Snakes Offline
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He has tons of great photos. I'd say the books worth it just for that. And he may get that boss info from unreliable sources. Having Ferriola as boss is definitely no outrageous claim but I have never heard of Turk or Buccieri being boss. I don't think the feds have ever said that either so I don't know where he got it from.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784372
06/17/14 03:45 PM
06/17/14 03:45 PM
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He doesn't even have Ricca on that list. A little inaccurate...

Last edited by NickyEyes1; 06/17/14 03:45 PM.
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784373
06/17/14 03:48 PM
06/17/14 03:48 PM
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funkster Offline
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Turk was a rising star, but don't think he was ever top boss.


So is this book just a listing of all the gangland murders and a short description?

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784378
06/17/14 04:13 PM
06/17/14 04:13 PM
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GaryMartin Offline OP
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I can promise you guys that what I said is in the book. The red flag went up when I saw the Bosses' list. He has some good photos and gives a brief description of the murders, who, what, where and when. Good info for sure.

He also lists some things he refers to as "Critical Events." Here's an example that I believe you can identify : " On October 9, 1983 Nick Calabrese and several other Outfit soldiers were ordered to a west suburban restaurant on Roosevelt Road where they appeared in front of the current Outfit Boss Joey "Doves" Aiuppa. At this time Aiuppa and most of the leadership of the Chicago Outfit carried out a ceremony that would give the men "Made" status in the Outfit. While this was a common process in the east coast Mafia, it was rare in Chicago. This information was presented in the Family Secrets testimony and the following men were "Made" that day: Albert Tocco, Jimmy Marcello, Anthony Zizzo, John Matassa, Frank Belmonte and of course the Calabrese brothers Frank and Nick."

No Outfit murders occurred in 1968.

This is the kind of info listed in the book. Lots of dates, especially when Outfit members died and general info that Dr. Johnson refers to as critical events.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: NickyEyes1] #784380
06/17/14 04:17 PM
06/17/14 04:17 PM
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GaryMartin Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
He doesn't even have Ricca on that list. A little inaccurate...


Nicky - Ricca is on the list. I just arbitrarily started with Accardo. Dr. Johnson started with Colosimo, Torrio, Capone, Nitti, Ricca.

Sorry, I should have made that clear.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784381
06/17/14 04:32 PM
06/17/14 04:32 PM
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mulberry Offline
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FBI had Cerone as boss or acting for over a year before he went to prison. Chicago leadership is even more of a mystery than the Genovese

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: Snakes] #784510
06/18/14 10:15 AM
06/18/14 10:15 AM
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funkster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Snakes

D'Amico: 2005?-Present

D'Amico is only speculation on my part.

This based on your own observations? I think you could certainly be correct.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: funkster] #784513
06/18/14 10:29 AM
06/18/14 10:29 AM
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domwoods74 Offline
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I thought it was jimmy inendino and solly d who where running the outfit

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784514
06/18/14 10:29 AM
06/18/14 10:29 AM
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domwoods74 Offline
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I thought andriacchi and d' amico were pretty much retired

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784516
06/18/14 10:43 AM
06/18/14 10:43 AM
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Snakes Offline
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Andriacchi probably is but D'Amico may be running things now. Who knows, it's purely speculation on my part.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784521
06/18/14 10:52 AM
06/18/14 10:52 AM
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domwoods74 Offline
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So difronzo is totally out the picture

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784523
06/18/14 10:56 AM
06/18/14 10:56 AM
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Snakes Offline
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The guy's 85 years old and a millionaire a few times over - I'd say so. I think Family Secrets spooked him and he's been done ever since. Coincidentally enough, that was around the same time Marco was released.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784528
06/18/14 11:06 AM
06/18/14 11:06 AM
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domwoods74 Offline
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Yeah I remember that , a lot of people have found it strange difronzo has never been indicted

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784533
06/18/14 11:13 AM
06/18/14 11:13 AM
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Snakes Offline
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The same reason Lou Marino has never been indicted - there was no other evidence to corroborate Nick's testimony. Michael Spilotro's daughter testified that Marcello was the one who called the Spilotro household on the day of the murder and in addition to that, the feds also had as evidence the wiretaps disclosing the "hush money" which Marcello was paying to Nick, presumably to keep him quiet about his involvement in the Spilotro murders.

No such evidence exits for DiFronzo or Marino, the only two survivors out of the remainder of the alleged killers.

Last edited by Snakes; 06/18/14 11:14 AM.

"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784534
06/18/14 11:18 AM
06/18/14 11:18 AM
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domwoods74 Offline
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Yeah I've read all that pal . There was a story on the net saying difronzo could have been an informant which I find ridiculous

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784536
06/18/14 11:19 AM
06/18/14 11:19 AM
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domwoods74 Offline
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Ipyeah I remember marcello paying calabrese money every week while he was in Milan prison

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784538
06/18/14 11:30 AM
06/18/14 11:30 AM
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Difronzo and D'Amico run Elmwood with D'Amico running day to day while DiFronzo just makes final decisions. The question is whether Cicero or Elmwood is the current power base.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: Snakes] #784559
06/18/14 01:34 PM
06/18/14 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Snakes
The guy's 85 years old and a millionaire a few times over

Maybe this is the main reason he wasn't indicted rather than not enough evidence. If he has got more cash than others, leniency is a natural result.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784564
06/18/14 02:16 PM
06/18/14 02:16 PM
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funkster Offline
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The idea that bananas is a dry snitch seems preposterous. Probably exactly what Snakes said, no corroborating evidence. My guess is he's assumed an Accardo senior advisor role and Damico runs EP. Seems that the white collar rackets belongs to them along with some various gambling interests, while the blue collar street stuff is handled by Cicero.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784579
06/18/14 03:55 PM
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GaryMartin Offline OP
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Update: listed below is a statement at the end of "A History Of Violence:"

" On March 11, 2011 it was reported by the press based on unsealed federal documents that the two men now leading the Chicago Outfit are Michael Sarno and Salvatore Cataudella. Sarno is in custody from a 2010 federal conviction and was sentenced to 25 yrs in prison which leaves Cataudella as the last man standing. OUTFIT leadership has always been hard to establish as this report is refuted by some Mob watchers."

Well, now we know the origin of the information. And you guys have pointed out that the assertion is incorrect.

I would still recommend the book. It really has a lot of information / data plus some good pictures.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: funkster] #784581
06/18/14 04:05 PM
06/18/14 04:05 PM
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GaryMartin Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: funkster
The idea that bananas is a dry snitch seems preposterous. Probably exactly what Snakes said, no corroborating evidence. My guess is he's assumed an Accardo senior advisor role and Damico runs EP. Seems that the white collar rackets belongs to them along with some various gambling interests, while the blue collar street stuff is handled by Cicero.


My interest has been primarily the Ricca, Accardo and Giancana era, plus FS. But the research and readings lead to comparisons, etc. Everything I've read indicates just what you've posted about JD assuming a role similar to Accardo.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784583
06/18/14 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: GaryMartin
Update: listed below is a statement at the end of "A History Of Violence:"

" On March 11, 2011 it was reported by the press based on unsealed federal documents that the two men now leading the Chicago Outfit are Michael Sarno and Salvatore Cataudella. Sarno is in custody from a 2010 federal conviction and was sentenced to 25 yrs in prison which leaves Cataudella as the last man standing. OUTFIT leadership has always been hard to establish as this report is refuted by some Mob watchers."

Well, now we know the origin of the information. And you guys have pointed out that the assertion is incorrect.

I would still recommend the book. It really has a lot of information / data plus some good pictures.

Those 2 were never in charge overall. Sarno was probably #2 or #3 in Cicero but never #1. Sammy C is probably Cicero's #3 guy today.

And I agree about Ricca. Probably the most underrated boss Chicago has ever had. Had just as much if not more influence than Accardo and Giancana. Had a say in everything from the 30s to 70s and served little jail time.

Last edited by NickyEyes1; 06/18/14 04:18 PM.
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784588
06/18/14 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: GaryMartin
Update: listed below is a statement at the end of "A History Of Violence:"

" On March 11, 2011 it was reported by the press based on unsealed federal documents that the two men now leading the Chicago Outfit are Michael Sarno and Salvatore Cataudella. Sarno is in custody from a 2010 federal conviction and was sentenced to 25 yrs in prison which leaves Cataudella as the last man standing. OUTFIT leadership has always been hard to establish as this report is refuted by some Mob watchers."


That was probably the Mutt and Jeff article in the Sun Times.
here's a link:
Mutt and Jeff

A lone disgruntled guy seems to be the source of that info
The article says:
"A confidential FBI informant, who felt abandoned by the Outfit and was motivated to talk, told the feds in 2007 that Mutt and Jeff “were the current Outfit bosses in the Chicago area,” according to the previously sealed federal document."

And

"While one informant put Sarno and Cataudella at the top of the Chicago Outfit, another informant advised the FBI that Sarno was still turning over money to reputed Outfit underboss John “No Nose” DiFronzo, also known as “Johnny Bananas.” Another source of information noted that Sarno was higher in the leadership structure and collecting money from reputed 26th Street crew boss Frank “Tootsie Babe” Caruso.

Marcello himself called the two men “Mutt and Jeff” in one jailhouse conversation, secretly recorded for the Family Secrets investigation."

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784594
06/18/14 05:02 PM
06/18/14 05:02 PM
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funkster Offline
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I think the media is quite silly to take the word if one unknown/unnamed informant. For all we know it was some low level associate in Cicero who had no clue the structure. Not to mention if he felt abandoned, it probably means the guy was shelved for one reason or another.

Last edited by funkster; 06/18/14 05:07 PM.
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: funkster] #784599
06/18/14 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: funkster
I think the media is quite silly to take the word if one unknown/unnamed informant. For all we know it was some low level associate in Cicero who had no clue the structure. Not to mention if he felt abandoned, it probably means the guy was shelved for one reason or another.

To be fair, the media reported what was in a fed affidavit and was pretty dismissive of that particular source's claim.

It was Johnson who didn't read the news article all the way through.

Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784606
06/18/14 06:33 PM
06/18/14 06:33 PM
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Sarno was the "last man standing" in Cicero at one point so I wouldn't be surprised if he ran that crew for a time, but the whole Outfit? I doubt it.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Outfit Bosses Question ? [Re: GaryMartin] #784613
06/18/14 08:31 PM
06/18/14 08:31 PM
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funkster Offline
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Depends on the time period. I can't imagine Solly D got out of the can and was taking orders from him.

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