In such a legalized gambling activity like horse racing, how does LCN make any money on that? I mean fixing races? Maybe. Being able to bet on credit? I guess, but some states allow markers for horse racing legally. Other than just for recreational gambling I'm having trouble finding out why people (myself included) naturally associate horse racing with wiseguys. Any thoughts?
In such a legalized gambling activity like horse racing, how does LCN make any money on that? I mean fixing races? Maybe. Being able to bet on credit? I guess, but some states allow markers for horse racing legally. Other than just for recreational gambling I'm having trouble finding out why people (myself included) naturally associate horse racing with wiseguys. Any thoughts?
Wiseguys love to bet horses. That and the bookmaking. Those are the main reasons people make the association.
As far as wiseguys fixing races, it happens. But not nearly as much as you'd think, And it's much easier to fix the trotters. That's why the trotters are a dead sport today. Roosevelt and Yonkers Raceway were like a candy store for those guys back in the '60s and '70s.
But it got to the point where the average gambler got so disgusted with not having a fair chance, that they just stopped going. That's why Roosevelt's gone and, if not for the video poker and slots, Yonkers would be a parking lot as well. But give it to the Rooneys, they're making money hand over fist with those slots today.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Frank, My guess would be because there is a school of thought that still subscribes to theory that they are fixed based on the LCN history of involvement. The same can be said for strip clubs and Italian restaurants. 25 years ago a stretch of Federal Highway between Commercial Blvd and Oakland Park Blvd in Fort Lauderdale had a huge LCN presence, restaurants, strip clubs and night clubs. You know what they say about wise guys, they aren't happy making money unless their stealing it. We have quite a few dog and pony tracks down here and along with a couple Jai Alai futons and back in the day they were heavily mobbed up. I suppose today you could still find a way to fix a race and make a couple bucks by why bother when you can set up a phony medical office, buy a list of Medicare recipients names and SS numbers and bill Medicare for millions of dollars in 3 months time and pack it in before the feds even get suspicious.
Frank, My guess would be because there is a school of thought that still subscribes to theory that they are fixed based on the LCN history of involvement. The same can be said for strip clubs and Italian restaurants. 25 years ago a stretch of Federal Highway between Commercial Blvd and Oakland Park Blvd in Fort Lauderdale had a huge LCN presence, restaurants, strip clubs and night clubs. You know what they say about wise guys, they aren't happy making money unless their stealing it. We have quite a few dog and pony tracks down here and along with a couple Jai Alai futons and back in the day they were heavily mobbed up. I suppose today you could still find a way to fix a race and make a couple bucks by why bother when you can set up a phony medical office, buy a list of Medicare recipients names and SS numbers and bill Medicare for millions of dollars in 3 months time and pack it in before the feds even get suspicious.
They went to the well one too many times with the Florida horse and dog tracks. They got greedy and killed a good thing (good for them, not that I'm saying it's good).
I love the track. Hell, I grew up at the track. New York and Florida. But it's a bygone way of life for the most part .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Frank, My guess would be because there is a school of thought that still subscribes to theory that they are fixed based on the LCN history of involvement. The same can be said for strip clubs and Italian restaurants. 25 years ago a stretch of Federal Highway between Commercial Blvd and Oakland Park Blvd in Fort Lauderdale had a huge LCN presence, restaurants, strip clubs and night clubs. You know what they say about wise guys, they aren't happy making money unless their stealing it. We have quite a few dog and pony tracks down here and along with a couple Jai Alai futons and back in the day they were heavily mobbed up. I suppose today you could still find a way to fix a race and make a couple bucks by why bother when you can set up a phony medical office, buy a list of Medicare recipients names and SS numbers and bill Medicare for millions of dollars in 3 months time and pack it in before the feds even get suspicious.
They went to the well one too many times with the Florida horse and dog tracks. They got greedy and killed a good thing (good for them, not that I'm saying it's good).
I love the track. Hell, I grew up at the track. New York and Florida. But it's a bygone way of life for the most part .
PB, I still enjoy a day at the track occasionally, a few years back I went with an old friend to the dog track on Belvedere and Congress and he knew a guy that worked with the vets at the track. He marked our programs and we won every race we bet. I was too much of skeptic/chicken to bet heavy but I won a few bucks that day. Are you talking about the Pittsburgh Rooney's in your previous post, if so I didn't know they owned tracks in New York as well?
Are you talking about the Pittsburgh Rooney's in your previous post, if so I didn't know they owned tracks in New York as well?
Yes, they've owned Yonkers Raceway for about forty years. They bought the track when it was already past its prime and going downhill. They stuck it out through the lean years when they were down to like a thousand people a night. Seriously, a thousand people, where Yonkers did forty thousand a night in their heyday.
The trotters are a dead sport. But they finally passed the video slots back in the early 2000's, and Yonkers debuted them in 2006. The rest is history. They're making money hand over fist (like the Rooneys need it---lol). The little business they do off the actual horses is just a very small bonus at this point.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
As far as wiseguys fixing races, it happens. But not nearly as much as you'd think, And it's much easier to fix the trotters. That's why the trotters are a dead sport today. Roosevelt and Yonkers Raceway were like a candy store for those guys back in the '60s and '70s.
Back in the day when my father gambled he'd drive all the way up to Monticello to bet on a fixed race (that's a four hour roundtrip drive from Brooklyn). Monticello was the most crooked track in the country and the wiseguys used it as a cash machine.
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Re: Horse Racing
[Re: SC]
#779893 05/23/1403:10 PM05/23/1403:10 PM
As far as wiseguys fixing races, it happens. But not nearly as much as you'd think, And it's much easier to fix the trotters. That's why the trotters are a dead sport today. Roosevelt and Yonkers Raceway were like a candy store for those guys back in the '60s and '70s.
Back in the day when my father gambled he'd drive all the way up to Monticello to bet on a fixed race (that's a four hour roundtrip drive from Brooklyn). Monticello was the most crooked track in the country and the wiseguys used it as a cash machine.
Yup. There was one scam in particular called the "Twin Double" where they really cleaned up at Monticello. Years later it would take on a different form in the "Pick 4," but back then they eventually did away with it at Monticello all together. The track got KILLED. And it just goes to show how short-sighted those guys are. Because back then, the off-the-record owner of Monticello was owned by the Genovese Family .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Are there any states that don't have off track betting any more. If they are you can make money in those states.
Have to have a reliable sports book that gives the right odds. Then you take bets you don't want to make money you don't want to loss money. What you want is to make a percentage off the top on every bet made.
Big players don't want to bet OTB or at the track. They don't want to pay taxes on the money they win. So they will use an illegal bookie.
Trooters are for losers. Every see Pesce in easy money. Remember how he noticed the riders was throwing the race
I used to go to giants stadium to watch the metrostar night games. Then at 10 I would walk to the meadow lands race track. I must have been out of my mind to do that back then.
As far as wiseguys fixing races, it happens. But not nearly as much as you'd think, And it's much easier to fix the trotters. That's why the trotters are a dead sport today. Roosevelt and Yonkers Raceway were like a candy store for those guys back in the '60s and '70s.
Back in the day when my father gambled he'd drive all the way up to Monticello to bet on a fixed race (that's a four hour roundtrip drive from Brooklyn). Monticello was the most crooked track in the country and the wiseguys used it as a cash machine.
Do you guys remember back in the 70's they had the races from Yonkers on TV, every Saturday night on channel 9 WOR I think, right after WWF wrestling, that must have been WOR's night for fixed television.
As far as wiseguys fixing races, it happens. But not nearly as much as you'd think, And it's much easier to fix the trotters. That's why the trotters are a dead sport today. Roosevelt and Yonkers Raceway were like a candy store for those guys back in the '60s and '70s.
Back in the day when my father gambled he'd drive all the way up to Monticello to bet on a fixed race (that's a four hour roundtrip drive from Brooklyn). Monticello was the most crooked track in the country and the wiseguys used it as a cash machine.
Do you guys remember back in the 70's they had the races from Yonkers on TV, every Saturday night on channel 9 WOR I think, right after WWF wrestling, that must have been WOR's night for fixed television.
Stan Bergstein and Spencer Ross!!!!
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
As far as wiseguys fixing races, it happens. But not nearly as much as you'd think, And it's much easier to fix the trotters. That's why the trotters are a dead sport today. Roosevelt and Yonkers Raceway were like a candy store for those guys back in the '60s and '70s.
Back in the day when my father gambled he'd drive all the way up to Monticello to bet on a fixed race (that's a four hour roundtrip drive from Brooklyn). Monticello was the most crooked track in the country and the wiseguys used it as a cash machine.
Do you guys remember back in the 70's they had the races from Yonkers on TV, every Saturday night on channel 9 WOR I think, right after WWF wrestling, that must have been WOR's night for fixed television.
An astute horse racing handicapper and entrepreneur from Palm Beach County on Sunday blindsided Gulfstream Park and thousands of bettors salivating at the thought of the richest Pick 6 payoff in U.S. history.
But that moment never came for Gulfstream or those bettors. Dan Borislow beat everyone to the punch.
“I was trying to catch everybody sleeping, and I guess my strategy worked,” Borislow said by phone after cashing a Pick 6 ticket worth nearly $6.7 million.
And he doesn’t feel the least bit bad about it.
“I guess the more losers there are, the bigger the winner is,” he said.
About the only other person smiling after Borislow’s big score: Uncle Sam.
“Looks like about $1.7 million,” Borislow said of the federal tax cut on his winning wager.
Borislow had good reason to gloat. He became the first person since Gulfstream launched its Rainbow 6 wager on Jan. 10 to not only correctly pick all six winners on the designated races on the track’s daily card, but to also be the only person to hold a winning ticket for any one card — the catch that made the carryover pool swell to historic proportions.
On Monday, though, Gulfstream was prepared to pay off the entire pool whether there was just one correct winner — or a thousand and one.
The track had began publicizing the wager. Track officials projected the final total pool would reach up to $20 million, easily shattering the previous Pick 6 total pool mark of $10.8 million set at California’s Hollywood Park in 2007.
“We’re disappointed like everyone else that we didn’t have the chance to see how high the pool could have gone with a mandatory payout on Monday, but this also proves that you never know when someone will get lucky and hit it,” Gulfstream Park President Tim Ritvo said.
Tracks around the country, knowing their patrons would be absorbed by Gulfstream’s potential massive payoff, even went so far as changing their own race post times so as not to interfere.
Bettors everywhere grabbed advance copies of the Daily Racing Form and began doing their homework for Monday’s card, and a Pick 6 bonanza like none before.
Gulfstream even designed its weekend racing cards to help ensure that Monday would be the day. It carded short fields with big favorites Saturday and Sunday, thereby making it more likely that there would be more than one winning Pick 6 ticket on those days.
After all, it takes only two or more winning tickets to keep the wager going, and the pot building.
But Borislow — the inventor of the magicJack phone system and part-time resident of Palm Beach County — sensed a chance to make a score Sunday. If everyone was so intent on taking aim at the rich payoff on Monday’s card, he figured they might ignore Sunday’s.
And he pounced.
Borislow crafted a ticket costing him $7,600. He bet every horse in the third, fourth, fifth, seventh and eighth races, along with two starters in the sixth race.
“I’ve been handicapping for a few years, and there are two things that are important,” Borislow said. “It’s not only knowing which horses to bet, but how to bet.”
Again, Borislow was banking on two things: light betting interest as most waited for Monday’s card to roll around, and long-shot winners. He scored on both counts.
When Bagration won the first leg of the Pick 6 at odds of 16-1, Borislow was on his way as those playing mostly favorites quickly fell by the wayside. Cajun Breeze ($22 for a $2 win ticket), Little Bart ($12.80), Signofaffection ($10.40), Cajun Sunrise ($9.60) and Callana ($12.80) rounded out the rest of the wager.
Not a single favorite triumphed.
“I thought this would be a good day because everybody was waiting for tomorrow, and I thought today was my chance to get it by myself,” Borislow said.
He got it all right. And didn’t feel at all guilty about ruining the fun for Gulfstream and those hoping for a handicapping home run on Monday.
“Not with all the money in my pocket, I don’t,” he said.
I love to watch horse racing,but I wasn't very good at picking winners. After I lost more than I won for the hundreth time,I decided that I would still go to the track to enjoy the live action,but I wouldn't place any wagers. Instead,I would make mental bets on the races.
Within 2 months, I lost my mind.
I don't seem to have any luck in gambling. Last year,I lost $8,000 dollars. I'm starting to think that professional wrestling might not be on the level.
How did horse racing play in with the whole illegal numbers games that were and still are around?
Depends where you lived. They'd use the local track's total handle for the day, or in some instances the tote, or in other instances the totals for three races at a time (with a 9 race card that would give you three digits for the day, so you could theoretically play just one number at a time).
Pre-1985, numbers was a HUGE moneymaker. Then the States started with the legal numbers and that was all she wrote. There are still some dinosaurs who book the number, but years ago there were numbers stores and sheet writers all over the place. Everyone in the neighborhood knew where to get down. Today people who play, and book, the street number, are few and far between.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Pizza can probably best answer as he's older but I believe if I remember correctly the number was based on lets say aqueduct. Race 1 2 and 3 where the daily number. So if the 1 horse won then 3 won the second race and then 7 won the third race the daily number would be 1 3 7
How did horse racing play in with the whole illegal numbers games that were and still are around?
Depends where you lived. They'd used the local track's total handle for the day, or in some instances the tote, or in other instances the totals for three races at a time (with a 9 race card that would give you three digits for the day, so you could theoretically play just one number at a time).
Pre-1985, numbers was a HUGE moneymaker. Then the States started with the legal numbers and that was all she wrote. There are still some dinosaurs who book the number, but years ago there were numbers stores and sheet writers all over the place. Everyone in the neighborhood knew where to get down. Today people who play, and book, the street number, are few and far between.
And there u go. Like clock work
I was close. Pizza do I get something for second place?
When Interpol?
Re: Horse Racing
[Re: cheech]
#782897 06/09/1412:39 PM06/09/1412:39 PM
Pizza can probably best answer as he's older but I believe if I remember correctly the number was based on lets say aqueduct. Race 1 2 and 3 where the daily number. So if the 1 horse won then 3 won the second race and then 7 won the third race the daily number would be 1 3 7
Or some modification of that.
I think......
Look at my post above yours. Depends where you lived.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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but I believe if I remember correctly the number was based on lets say aqueduct. Race 1 2 and 3 where the daily number. So if the 1 horse won then 3 won the second race and then 7 won the third race the daily number would be 1 3 7