And I think anyone is nuts who thinks Marco isn't "made". I don't care about any ceremony since they were only started in Joey Doves era. He was "in" before that. When you read the Cooley book he was a heavy and big earner long before that came into the picture.

Hell I don't think the clown got his finger pricked and nobody with 1/2 a brain would say he wasn't "made".

BTW - funkster i grew up near Roma's I saw you loved the beefs. Good shit. Cheesy beef and fries. Johnny's in AH is the best in the NW burbs.

Yeah, Herion's books have tons of print errors - enough to border on unbearable at times - but the stories are so damn interesting that it forces you to slog on.

The other knock on the book is that it can be redundant at times. He'll tell a story and then 60-70 pages later repeat it with slightly different wording. His books aren't ordered chronologically so they don't really flow that well.

They are probably best suited as "toilet readers" to be honest, lol. Sit down for 5-10 minutes, pick up one of his books and read a random chapter while you do your business.

The making ceremonies definitely weren't started during O'Brien's era, they've always been around.

People base that entire myth off of one single Giancana wiretap.

It's tough to tell and I don't think we will ever know. We didn't have the "benefit" of a Valachi in Chicago in that time period to let us know for sure.

I've always been of the opinion that the crew bosses could make guys (with the top boss's approval) and whether or not they did it with the ceremony was up to them.

Huron, there were other CI's in the FBI files that claimed that a ceremony did not take place but they may have been too low to know for sure.

Not sure about the timing but Frank Calabrese said on a wire that the book The Godfather got the ceremony almost exactly right.

He also said that after all these years, the thing he felt worst about was burning a saint card in his hand.

It certainly isn't tough to tell. Without making ceremonies, it wouldn't be Mafia. It would simply be a group of criminals loosely correlating schemes.

When a guy gets made, lots of stuff is involved: He's given a crew, usually guys he's familiar with, sometimes not. He's assigned a designated territory, assigned specific rackets. It's a very precise, calculated, lengthy process. There isn't any Mafia group anywhere on earth that doesn't make members, otherwise it would just be a gang.

People came to that conclusion that the making ceremonies began during O'Brien's reign as top boss based upon three occurrences: the first was the giancana wiretap. The second was the Infelise wiretap. The third was the Calabrese testimony.

Speculators heard Infelise & Calabrese, but were already under the impression that the Outfit didn't make members (completely ridiculous), and they figured that O'Brien must have been the one that "started" it. Also completely ridiculous.

.

Honestly it's a whatever. Everyone knows (at least with the major players) who was made. Whether they did the finger prick and saint burning is really irrelevant IMO.

You think JB or Sam did it? Doubtful.

And in some ways NY didn't recognize them from what you read. However they knew they had respect them (Capone) and put them on the Commision. Whatever transpired after that who knows with the Outfit.

I'm not following. Accardo certainly made people into the Outfit, he was a La Cosa Nostra boss. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest otherwise. People come to that absurd conclusion because no elite guys ever flipped during that era.

And of course NY recognized Chicago. I dunno where people get this from. What do you mean by recognize? One of the most legendary Genovese mobster's kid was a Grand Avenue capo. Pudgy Matassa is linked to the Genovese through marriage.

Sam Carlisi's brother was a Buffalo capo.

Which one you talking about?


EK, yeah my Grandparents lived about five minutes from Roma's for like 50 years. My mom was brought up at that house...so I was always taken there when I was a kid.

Vince Solano, testifying at a labor racketeering hearing in 1985:

Surveillance photo of Joey Aiuppa and John Fecarotta (you can only see the back of his head), 1974:

Some more really good pictures, Snakes. I'm guessing these are from CCC? I ordered a book from them, "Friend and Foe." Some pretty good pics. Most info is well-known. Lots of discussion about gangs.

Thanks for the pics.

Regarding "making," I wonder if some people within the organization/around it, kind of look at it as being silly.

Henry Hill was a on radio show and this guy called in who either was a gangster or pretending to be a mobster talking about how he was a stand up guy, etc., and making fun of Hill for ratting, and Hill kept exploding with laughter and going, "Are they gonna make you Louie?! Are they gonna make you?!"

And Fosco said basically it was a tool they kind of passed out to people in order to not have to pay them more... ha... like the way a company gives you a title for a promotion instead of more money.

I just imagine that if you are part of a criminal organization that the brass tacks are making money and keeping out of trouble with the law... and if you are not making money no one is going to care if you are made or not. Similarly, if you are in enough trouble with the law, I kind of doubt being made would be much of a deterrent to flipping.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't think in serious situations for full grown men who are already career criminals, having their finger pricked would really influence important events one way or another.

That isn't the universal case at all. Being made is most certainly a privilege. You definitely make more money and are being blessed with significantly more power. You go from working for someone and kicking up, to having a crew of your own kicking up to you, taking orders from you, etc. Fosco is speaking through what Willie Messino told him. Messino just happened to have a prick for a boss who scoured money & lied to his underlings. He's an exception to the rule.

Being made would definitely be a deterrent. You are responsible for a crew of employees. You are privy to details about said employees that could seriously cripple their livelihood. It is a gigantic responsibility. Much more so in the Outfit than any other American Mafia organization.

Thanks for the Aiuppa pic. Love seeing photos of O that I haven't seen before. 75 percent of the pics of him make him look like one old timer you just did not want to fuck with.

I found this pic of Anthony Centracchio put dont know how to put it up.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AvI3SQRgpMc/UwpFy54BpGI/AAAAAAAAAS0/VP25sEXKE4c/s1600/130+Centracchio.jpg

That was taken during his trial I believe. What a character that motherfucker was.

That's from Wayne Johnson's site. He has a huge collection of images from the past eighty or so years. I love that he is putting some up on his blog.

Btw, on RD McScott posted Fratto made in 88...the error was on the websites part.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/two-bodies-found-in-town-of-geneva-b99285748z1-262099081.html

Could be something, could be nothing. When my buddy initially told me about this though, my first thought was is it possible?

Interesting article Funk. What does everyone think of Rudy Fratto? I know Fosco doesn't think much of him, but he has been involved in important meetings. Including 2001 when Mickey Marcello was wanting to move into video poker for his brother. There was a meeting between Marcello and other made members, including Matassa and Fratto, according to the article. Does anyone know if the other made members attending were identified elsewhere? http://www.ipsn.org/gambling/feds_zero_in_on_video_poker_king.htm

this thread is 35 pages why don't you just post who the 28 guys names are and see how many are still alive.

That list is shoddy & outdated, it's all but irrelevant today

That list is shoddy & outdated, it's all but irrelevant today

The list is In this thread somewhere I think Ivy posted it a while back

That list was made post Family Secrets. It's really not that accurate now. At any rate, here it is:

1. Joseph Andriacchi
2. Dominic Basso (Dead)
3. Robert Bellavia (Jail)
4. Frank Calabrese (Dead)
5. Bruno Caruso
6. Frank Caruso
7. Leo Caruso
8. Marco D'Amico
9. John DiFronzo
10. Joseph DiFronzo
11. Peter M. DiFronzo
12. Salvatore DeLaurentis
13. Rudolph Fratto (Shelved)
14. Michael Gurgone
15. James Inendino
16. Joseph Frank LaMantia (Dead)
17. Joseph Lombardo (Jail)
18. Rocco Lombardo (Probably not made)
19. Michael Magnifichi (Shelved)
20. James Marcello (Jail)
21. Louis Marino (Jail)
22. John Matassa
23. Salvatore Muserino (Dead)
24. Albert Roverio (Dead)
25. Michael Spano Sr. (Jail)
26. John Eugene Spizzirri (Dead)
27. Richard Allen Spizzirri
28. Michael C. Talarico

I smell some trolling.

aiuppa looks like a fucking junkyard dog

i see why accardo groomed him for the top spot

Trolling for sure. You'd think people would have better shit to do with their day. You'd be wrong.