Of course attrition hurts everyone. I'm talking about other factors. Philly's turning point was the Scarfo wars killing off half the guys and sending the other half to prison. Rochester was the AB wars. Cleveland was the Danny Greene war.

Other families don't have a big event and just fade away due to attrition, like San Jose, Detroit, Buffalo, New Orleans, Tampa etc.

Gambat killed it. Read the Cooley book, when the First Ward was done, it was over.

Now it's just some gaming and street juice. Before Cooley took out Marcy they could murder without any worries.

I'm about halfway through Cooley's book and it's a good one. I just keep getting interrupted with "Honey Do's." A fellow forum member suggested the book and also "Everybody Pays," which is the story of the Billy Logan murder by Harry Aleman. Really good book.

"The Boys From Chicago Heights" is another good one. Excellent research by Matt Luzi.

^^^^^^

u can still get anything u want on "the strip" in calumet city

When did anyone refute the fact that they were elite? They were considered the #3 family in the country during their prime and Al Capone & Mooney Giancana (to a lesser extent) are two of the most internationally well known gangsters in history.

I also agree.Thats a very good book with a lot of good infos and also photos.

Did the outfit ever & still ask NYC permission for activities like the way Philly mob did?

No. Really the only time they crossed paths was mainly involving unions and Vegas. Even then neither had more power over another.

Thanks for reply the outfit always seemed more violent then NYC, in my option

Close ties to the Genovese though. There's a pic of Paul Ricca lined up with some of the early heavyweights like Vito Genovese and Luciano. I was reading through Fat Tony's FBI files and it looks like he sold him a house in Florida. Also, Tommy Ryan Eboli's son Mooch Eboli was a pretty ranking Outfit member in the 70s and 80s.

Ricca seemed like a serious gangster,

Not Vito but Meyer Lansky.Heres a post that i made a while ago...

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=756161

Thanks for link,

Ah yes. Some reason I was thinking Genovese was in it. Point remains, the ties were there. It is also said Genovese was very much in favor of Appalachain being held in Chicago...though that could also have been due to the fact that the police were much more in the Outfit's pocket than anywhere else.