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messina Denaro #757342
01/06/14 07:57 PM
01/06/14 07:57 PM
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pacosmart22 Offline OP
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pacosmart22  Offline OP
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So how long do you guys think matteo messina denaro has left.
I read an article that he was in need of money and fled gis territory.is the italian government finally drying him out of money and options.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757346
01/06/14 08:08 PM
01/06/14 08:08 PM
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Posts: 2,111
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Dellacroce Offline
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Dellacroce  Offline
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Also a bunch of people connected to him including his sister were recently arrested for helping him, so it definatly seems like they are squeezing his network.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/13/mafia-top-boss-family-members-arrested-sicily


"Let me tell you something. There's no nobility in poverty. I've been a poor man, and I've been a rich man. And I choose rich every fucking time."

-Jordan Belfort
Re: messina Denaro [Re: Dellacroce] #757349
01/06/14 08:15 PM
01/06/14 08:15 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dellacroce
Also a bunch of people connected to him including his sister were recently arrested for helping him, so it definatly seems like they are squeezing his network.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/13/mafia-top-boss-family-members-arrested-sicily


They (italian govt) does this when they get desperate. It's a common tactic to try and smoke a big boss out of his hole.

He's not going to flee Trapani area or he'll be caught. Once they arrest your inner circle protecting you, if you move, you're caught very soon after. I doubt he's hurting for money, but what's money to him? He can't go out and spend it. The guy is power hungry, like they all are down there. I think when Provenzano was arrested he was living off something like 20,000 EU/month.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757351
01/06/14 08:26 PM
01/06/14 08:26 PM
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Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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I don't think he has long left. The Italian government was desperate to arrest him and did what they always do when they are desperate to arrest a boss on the run. They arrested his inner circle and family members. Most Sicilian bosses do not flee their territories when they are on the run. Messina still has a few trusted lieutenants not in prison, but with the amount of pressure the Italian government has put on the mafia clans, he won't stay hidden for very long unless he left Sicily already. Imo

Last edited by Giacomo_Vacari; 01/06/14 08:30 PM.

"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: messina Denaro [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #757352
01/06/14 08:29 PM
01/06/14 08:29 PM
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Posts: 2,292
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
I don't think he has long left. The Italian government was desperate to arrest him and arrested his inner circle. Most Sicilian bosses do not flee there territories when they are on the run. Messina still has a few trusted lieutenants not in prison, but with the amount of pressure the Italian government has put on the mafia clans, he won't stay hidden for very long unless he left Sicily already.


He does not trust even "trusted lieutenants" with where he is. He only trusts his blood family.
He's been on the run for 20 years and people have been saying for 20 years he doesn't have long left.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757356
01/06/14 08:39 PM
01/06/14 08:39 PM
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Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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That is true carmela, but the only way I can see him not being apprehended is if he had left Sicily which is very doubtful. carmela, with is blood relatives locked up now I say he has about a few years left. about fourteen of the mafia clans in Trapani are still loyal to him, the other six to ten I am unsure if they are still loyal to Denaro. People have been say he won't have long left, but now who does he still have contact left to command the mafia in Trapani? Only a few people but they are being watched as well.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: messina Denaro [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #757358
01/06/14 08:49 PM
01/06/14 08:49 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
That is true carmela, but the only way I can see him not being apprehended is if he had left Sicily which is very doubtful. carmela, with is blood relatives locked up now I say he has about a few years left. about fourteen of the mafia clans in Trapani are still loyal to him, the other six to ten I am unsure if they are still loyal to Denaro. People have been say he won't have long left, but now who does he still have contact left to command the mafia in Trapani? Only a few people but they are being watched as well.


All of Trapani is loyal to him. All of Agrigento is loyal to him. He was at the head of making the new cupola..granted it was a huge blitz (nuova cupola), but most have been let go by now.

He's got plenty of blood family around him still. The Messina's, the Salemi's, his mother's family...there's still plenty of family.

He holds the black dossier and as long as he does, he won't be caught. Politics.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757360
01/06/14 09:30 PM
01/06/14 09:30 PM
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Strax Offline
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Money is not problem for him you can be sure in that,he is full.We can't know for how long he will be on run,Provenzano 43 years,and as far as i know Matteo's father died at home in bed.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757375
01/06/14 11:24 PM
01/06/14 11:24 PM
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Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Yes carmela, Matteo still has plenty family left, but he is only as strong as those that are around him. The Italian government is putting a lot of pressure on the mafia clans. The real question is, will the government go all the way or will they retreat back to Rome as they did last time? Denaro is the topic of this thread, but with what Salvatore Riina had said about two months ago, one has to wonder what the Italian government will do.

Denaro is said to hold "One of" the black dossiers. Provenzano held one before he was caught, but did he give it to Denaro? If Matteo is indeed in possession of one of these, then he has nothing to really fear except for the chance that one of the other bosses could be mad at him and try to find a way for Palermo to give the O.K. to have Denaro killed.

Makes one really want to know what was discussed at the game in Palermo in 2010.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757377
01/06/14 11:46 PM
01/06/14 11:46 PM
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Posts: 2,292
NJ
carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Well I think we're talking in circles, Giacomo. He's only as good as the people around him, yes. I say that all the time. But he has plenty of blood family around him still protecting him.

As far as the meeting at the game in Palermo, they were putting together a new cupola, with Gerlandino Messina at the head. Messina had just moved his hideout to Favara, after 11 years on the run. They had feared he was already being watched and what happens next. And what happened next was huge on Oct 23, 2010, with his capture. When he was captured, they found notes that were going to MMD. So the cupola was at risk and what happened next was, by June 2012, they were all arrested, cosa nostra and stidde alike.

That was pretty funny...they all came in balls to the wall from Rome thinking who they were, then they all just up and left. lol That was in 2012, too,I believe.

Palermo having MMD killed is just absurd in my opinion, but anything is possible, I guess. What would be the point? He's got a lot of loyalties and pull in Palermo as well. Who's in charge of Palermo these days anyway?


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757414
01/07/14 10:48 AM
01/07/14 10:48 AM
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Scarface1981 Offline
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Nice to hear some news about what is going on currently in Italy!

Can i please ask, what are the 'black dossiers' which have been mentioned? I have never heard of these. I remember reading somewhere that Riina had some incriminating evidence that he had with him at him home, is this what you are referring to? I believe i read this in The Last Godfathers book.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: Scarface1981] #757546
01/07/14 07:08 PM
01/07/14 07:08 PM
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Posts: 2,292
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scarface1981
Nice to hear some news about what is going on currently in Italy!

Can i please ask, what are the 'black dossiers' which have been mentioned? I have never heard of these. I remember reading somewhere that Riina had some incriminating evidence that he had with him at him home, is this what you are referring to? I believe i read this in The Last Godfathers book.


Yes, that's it.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757571
01/07/14 09:49 PM
01/07/14 09:49 PM
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pmac Offline
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He got a cool ass name. Wants his nickname? He must got aton of girls hiding him out but probably not are there project building in his area like american ghetos is he hiding out in some widows extra room or a cave at a farm like provenzo.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pmac] #757578
01/07/14 10:40 PM
01/07/14 10:40 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: pmac
He got a cool ass name. Wants his nickname? He must got aton of girls hiding him out but probably not are there project building in his area like american ghetos is he hiding out in some widows extra room or a cave at a farm like provenzo.


Diabolik. And he even has a daughter who was conceived with a girlfriend while he was on the run...she's probably 17 years old now, I think. They were living with MMD's mother in the country house, but I'm pretty sure they moved out and left the town recently.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: carmela] #757607
01/08/14 07:12 AM
01/08/14 07:12 AM
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Scarface1981 Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: Scarface1981
Nice to hear some news about what is going on currently in Italy!

Can i please ask, what are the 'black dossiers' which have been mentioned? I have never heard of these. I remember reading somewhere that Riina had some incriminating evidence that he had with him at him home, is this what you are referring to? I believe i read this in The Last Godfathers book.


Yes, that's it.


Thanks for the reply Carmela.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757614
01/08/14 11:00 AM
01/08/14 11:00 AM
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Cajunland
LaLouisiane Offline
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Does anyone know what life is living on the run for 20 years? Someone should write a book on this guys time on the run when he is finally caught. To me it can't be that great always living in fear that the police will be knocking at your door. Also it can't be much of a social life besides your most trusted people dropping by to relay information to you...


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757619
01/08/14 11:36 AM
01/08/14 11:36 AM
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Posts: 2,028
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TommyGambino Offline
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So if he he has this black book and he's somehow immune from being caught why are the Italian Police trying to arrest him? Sorry, I don't know much about Italian OC.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: LaLouisiane] #757621
01/08/14 11:46 AM
01/08/14 11:46 AM
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: LaLouisiane
Does anyone know what life is living on the run for 20 years? Someone should write a book on this guys time on the run when he is finally caught. To me it can't be that great always living in fear that the police will be knocking at your door. Also it can't be much of a social life besides your most trusted people dropping by to relay information to you...


It's a shitty life and when they've been on the run for years and finally captured, it's almost a relief for them. Almost. But with these top bosses, they'll probably see their family members more when they're hiding out, b/c once caught they're thrown into 41-bis, which is an isolation for the rest of their lives, unless they talk. And they're only permitted one hour visitation a month and it's behind a glass partition.

A knock at the door by police? lol Hardly. Here is how my husband's cousin, boss of Agrigento, Gerlandino Messina, was captured after 11 years on the run in Sicily. He was #2 on Italy's most wanted until his capture in 2010...the guy I mentioned earlier in this thread. It's the same way MMD will be taken, if he even comes out alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6PsiynGL5s




La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: carmela] #757637
01/08/14 12:55 PM
01/08/14 12:55 PM
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Posts: 1,094
Cajunland
LaLouisiane Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: LaLouisiane
Does anyone know what life is living on the run for 20 years? Someone should write a book on this guys time on the run when he is finally caught. To me it can't be that great always living in fear that the police will be knocking at your door. Also it can't be much of a social life besides your most trusted people dropping by to relay information to you...


It's a shitty life and when they've been on the run for years and finally captured, it's almost a relief for them. Almost. But with these top bosses, they'll probably see their family members more when they're hiding out, b/c once caught they're thrown into 41-bis, which is an isolation for the rest of their lives, unless they talk. And they're only permitted one hour visitation a month and it's behind a glass partition.

A knock at the door by police? lol Hardly. Here is how my husband's cousin, boss of Agrigento, Gerlandino Messina, was captured after 11 years on the run in Sicily. He was #2 on Italy's most wanted until his capture in 2010...the guy I mentioned earlier in this thread. It's the same way MMD will be taken, if he even comes out alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6PsiynGL5s




That's a hell of a wake up call!


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757642
01/08/14 01:04 PM
01/08/14 01:04 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Since Gerlandino Messina is mentioned here, I have a question: is he known to have ordered any murders after becoming boss? Because everything he was convicted for he had done when he was just a young hitman.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757645
01/08/14 01:06 PM
01/08/14 01:06 PM
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Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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I've been on the other end of a DEA/ATF bust before. They fucked me up one cold morning in front of my neighbors and everything. Come to find out the lady that had the apartment before me was wanted for cooking meth and we had already been there 2-3 months when they hit the place. Talk about pissed! Had me standing out in 20 degree weather in my boxers!

Re: messina Denaro [Re: dixiemafia] #757646
01/08/14 01:21 PM
01/08/14 01:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094
Cajunland
LaLouisiane Offline
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
I've been on the other end of a DEA/ATF bust before. They fucked me up one cold morning in front of my neighbors and everything. Come to find out the lady that had the apartment before me was wanted for cooking meth and we had already been there 2-3 months when they hit the place. Talk about pissed! Had me standing out in 20 degree weather in my boxers!


Haha was it like when they caught Johnny Sac on the Sopranos at his house?


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"


Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757648
01/08/14 01:27 PM
01/08/14 01:27 PM
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Posts: 3,374
Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
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Nah man I didn't have time to get out! It was a 2nd story apartment with no back door. My old man likes to bang on the door like he is a cop so I thought it was him. So like a dumbass I opened the door without seeing who was outside and they snatched my ass out the door before I could even see who was there. I was flat on my face and handcuffed with a knee in my back. Damn concrete hurts son!

I had to start screaming that my son was in the house so they wouldn't shoot the poor thing. He was scared, I was pissed!

They said sorry sir we got the wrong house and fled out of there quicker than they came.

Last edited by dixiemafia; 01/08/14 01:27 PM.
Re: messina Denaro [Re: Dwalin2011] #757652
01/08/14 01:43 PM
01/08/14 01:43 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Since Gerlandino Messina is mentioned here, I have a question: is he known to have ordered any murders after becoming boss? Because everything he was convicted for he had done when he was just a young hitman.


You know, I'm not even sure. You're right, though, by the time he was godfather, he already had multiple life sentences. I think he first killed someone when he was as young as 19. He killed a lot for Riina, including the police sergeant, Guazzelli. Then there was the 11-year old boy, Giuseppe di Matteo, who was captured by Messina on orders of Brusca. Messina told him he was taking him to see his father and then they blindfolded the boy and stuffed him into the van. That was pretty bad and he was convicted in absentia for that as well.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: dixiemafia] #757653
01/08/14 01:44 PM
01/08/14 01:44 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: dixiemafia
Nah man I didn't have time to get out! It was a 2nd story apartment with no back door. My old man likes to bang on the door like he is a cop so I thought it was him. So like a dumbass I opened the door without seeing who was outside and they snatched my ass out the door before I could even see who was there. I was flat on my face and handcuffed with a knee in my back. Damn concrete hurts son!

I had to start screaming that my son was in the house so they wouldn't shoot the poor thing. He was scared, I was pissed!

They said sorry sir we got the wrong house and fled out of there quicker than they came.


I got a good chuckle out of this. Sorry. grin


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: carmela] #757661
01/08/14 02:09 PM
01/08/14 02:09 PM
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Posts: 3,374
Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
I got a good chuckle out of this. Sorry. grin


Most people do. wink

Wasn't so funny at the time though. lol

Re: messina Denaro [Re: pacosmart22] #757720
01/08/14 08:15 PM
01/08/14 08:15 PM
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Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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That sucks DM, it is a funny story to read.

carmela, as to who is running Palermo these days, it is hard to tell. Benedetto Caprize was nominated as the head of the commission when he was on house arrest, but wiretaps and notes that have been confiscated, that were passed from one mafia boss to another, indicating that at least half of mafia bosses of the Palermo province were wondering why Caprize was picked. I read that acting boss of the Bagheria family, Giuseppe Scaduto served as a buffer between those that were for and against Caprize getting the nomination. All this was back in 08'.

Now five years later, it is still hard to say, as Salvatore Buscemi of Passo di Rigano is said to have gained a lot of influence and is a strong contender. He and Torretta boss Vincenzo Brusca are both said to be strong supporters of having the exiled Inzerillo family to return to Sicily. Another boss that is said to be growing powerful is Luigi Caravello of Noce. Maybe Caravello can bring the power back to Noce again, but who knows, all of these are just rumors.

One thing I find funny about the media is when they call Denaro "The boss of bosses". Only a mafia boss with the strongest family from the province of Palermo can be called that. Matteo is from the province of Trapani and can not hold that title, if indeed the mafia clans of Sicily did bring back that title.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: messina Denaro [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #757733
01/08/14 09:24 PM
01/08/14 09:24 PM
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Posts: 2,292
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari


Denaro is said to hold "One of" the black dossiers. Provenzano held one before he was caught, but did he give it to Denaro? If Matteo is indeed in possession of one of these, then he has nothing to really fear except for the chance that one of the other bosses could be mad at him and try to find a way for Palermo to give the O.K. to have Denaro killed.



I forgot to answer this...MMD inherited this dossier from Riina via Provenzano.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: TommyGambino] #757736
01/08/14 09:27 PM
01/08/14 09:27 PM
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carmela Offline
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Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
So if he he has this black book and he's somehow immune from being caught why are the Italian Police trying to arrest him? Sorry, I don't know much about Italian OC.


MMD holds this dossier of blackmail information on politicians and so they owe him for not exposing it. This blackmail list is huge and goes way beyond Rome. I dont believe they are really trying to arrest him yet. Politics in Italy is more corrupt than the mafia.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: messina Denaro [Re: Giacomo_Vacari] #757739
01/08/14 09:32 PM
01/08/14 09:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
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Originally Posted By: Giacomo_Vacari
That sucks DM, it is a funny story to read.

carmela, as to who is running Palermo these days, it is hard to tell. Benedetto Caprize was nominated as the head of the commission when he was on house arrest, but wiretaps and notes that have been confiscated, that were passed from one mafia boss to another, indicating that at least half of mafia bosses of the Palermo province were wondering why Caprize was picked. I read that acting boss of the Bagheria family, Giuseppe Scaduto served as a buffer between those that were for and against Caprize getting the nomination. All this was back in 08'.

Now five years later, it is still hard to say, as Salvatore Buscemi of Passo di Rigano is said to have gained a lot of influence and is a strong contender. He and Torretta boss Vincenzo Brusca are both said to be strong supporters of having the exiled Inzerillo family to return to Sicily. Another boss that is said to be growing powerful is Luigi Caravello of Noce. Maybe Caravello can bring the power back to Noce again, but who knows, all of these are just rumors.

One thing I find funny about the media is when they call Denaro "The boss of bosses". Only a mafia boss with the strongest family from the province of Palermo can be called that. Matteo is from the province of Trapani and can not hold that title, if indeed the mafia clans of Sicily did bring back that title.


I assume you mean Benedetto Capizzi?

Riina was the only boss of bosses ever was and will ever be. I agree with you, even though the title of boss of bosses would have to be from Palermo, nobody wants it anymore, there's too much heat.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

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